Fishwhisperer - Thanks
All the complaints about fishing the vedder
I recently started reading this site posts again and I found basically the same apportionment of negative content as last year with many complaints about most other fisherperson on the Vedder.
Here are some interesting statistics from DFO, relative to complaints:
1. Complaint - There are too many people fishing the Vedder and its worse than ever and just getting worse-
Statistic- Recreational fishing is on a decline. In 1995 there were 294,439 freshwater fisherpersons, reduced to 235,691 by 2000 and further reduced to 211,403 by 2005 which represents an overall reduction of 28% from 1995-2005.
Comment - Each person of the crowd you are disapointed to see could be just as disapointed to see you there. Whenever I get to the Vedder I find loads of places to fish that are great. It’s a big system with loads of fish. Why is it so difficult for the ones who complain the most to do the same if they are such good fish persons?
2. Complaint - Maybe it’s just the fact that there are too many new novices who just don't know what they are doing.
Statistic - Average age Male 51 and Female 50 (oldest in Canada).
Comment: BC's freshwater fisherpersons are getting fewer and older.
3. Complaint - Freshwater recreational fisherpersons keep too many of the fish they catch.
Statistic - Fish Kept 2,139,469 7.9 fish per fisherperson (Compare Quebec 41.3 per person, PEI 50.1 per person, and Newfoundland 44.4 per person).
Comment: By comparison BC freshwater fisherpersons substantially less fish than their counterparts in other provinces.
4. Complaint - BC Freshwater fisherpersons are taking more than they give back and it's just getting to be a big "gong show"
Statistic - (a) Total Investment (direct and indirect) per anglers was $2521.63.
(b) Total cost for recreational freshwater fish kept = $319.19 per fish.
(c) Noteworthy ...by far, trout accounted for the largest apportionment of the species caught.
Comment: The financial benefit to our province, and everyone in it, for recreational fishing, is staggering considering the average cost of a fish with direct/in-direct investment is $319.19, most of which are trout, outweighs the flaws.
General comments:
There is concern about depletion of fish stocks. The recreational fishery doesn't even come into the formula when compared with commercial fisheries. Noteworthy, globally there is now only 3% of the feed fish left than there was 50 years ago and the big fish have to eat to survive.
All the short-float persons who stare from their ivory fishing towers to the nasty bottom bounce delinquents
may be akin to the gill netters calling down the purse seiners. I think the trawlers (fly fisherpersons) are in a better position to make that argument, if anyone.
Friendly advise always works best. Fishing and golf are the same to the extent there is an array of experience. I can't imagine wanting to golf if Tiger Woods and other pros were running around berating people for not being as good, or golfing just the way he does. What a way to turn people off something great (and turn off the economic benefits we all benefit from).
Fishing is about being happy and away from the anger and stress. If you have difficulty with your own anger management, take a course, but don't bring it to the river where it's all supposed to be good. Appropriately if you physically contact another fisherperson with intent, let alone hurt them or throw them in the river, then you should be convicted of assault and battery and just when you think it couldn't be worse you have to pay the bills to your lawyer and the other persons and the award for damages ensuing from your intentional tort.
If you see infractions and you are indeed seriously concerned, (rather than a half hearted gripe), take note and with due diligence and dispatch, (note I didn't say anger), notify the appropriate authority.
Finally, on a parting note, try to approach each situation with kindness, respect, understanding, and the possibility that everyone else may not be as gifted and amazing as you but they are trying in their own way. I still haven't met anyone, including me, who doesn't make a bad call once in a while or just screw up. Finding flaws in others doesn't elevate you, but finding the good points and helping out where you can, especially when it’s hard to do so, does.
Here are some interesting statistics from DFO, relative to complaints:
1. Complaint - There are too many people fishing the Vedder and its worse than ever and just getting worse-
Statistic- Recreational fishing is on a decline. In 1995 there were 294,439 freshwater fisherpersons, reduced to 235,691 by 2000 and further reduced to 211,403 by 2005 which represents an overall reduction of 28% from 1995-2005.
Comment - Each person of the crowd you are disapointed to see could be just as disapointed to see you there. Whenever I get to the Vedder I find loads of places to fish that are great. It’s a big system with loads of fish. Why is it so difficult for the ones who complain the most to do the same if they are such good fish persons?
2. Complaint - Maybe it’s just the fact that there are too many new novices who just don't know what they are doing.
Statistic - Average age Male 51 and Female 50 (oldest in Canada).
Comment: BC's freshwater fisherpersons are getting fewer and older.
3. Complaint - Freshwater recreational fisherpersons keep too many of the fish they catch.
Statistic - Fish Kept 2,139,469 7.9 fish per fisherperson (Compare Quebec 41.3 per person, PEI 50.1 per person, and Newfoundland 44.4 per person).
Comment: By comparison BC freshwater fisherpersons substantially less fish than their counterparts in other provinces.
4. Complaint - BC Freshwater fisherpersons are taking more than they give back and it's just getting to be a big "gong show"
Statistic - (a) Total Investment (direct and indirect) per anglers was $2521.63.
(b) Total cost for recreational freshwater fish kept = $319.19 per fish.
(c) Noteworthy ...by far, trout accounted for the largest apportionment of the species caught.
Comment: The financial benefit to our province, and everyone in it, for recreational fishing, is staggering considering the average cost of a fish with direct/in-direct investment is $319.19, most of which are trout, outweighs the flaws.
General comments:
There is concern about depletion of fish stocks. The recreational fishery doesn't even come into the formula when compared with commercial fisheries. Noteworthy, globally there is now only 3% of the feed fish left than there was 50 years ago and the big fish have to eat to survive.
All the short-float persons who stare from their ivory fishing towers to the nasty bottom bounce delinquents
may be akin to the gill netters calling down the purse seiners. I think the trawlers (fly fisherpersons) are in a better position to make that argument, if anyone.
Friendly advise always works best. Fishing and golf are the same to the extent there is an array of experience. I can't imagine wanting to golf if Tiger Woods and other pros were running around berating people for not being as good, or golfing just the way he does. What a way to turn people off something great (and turn off the economic benefits we all benefit from).
Fishing is about being happy and away from the anger and stress. If you have difficulty with your own anger management, take a course, but don't bring it to the river where it's all supposed to be good. Appropriately if you physically contact another fisherperson with intent, let alone hurt them or throw them in the river, then you should be convicted of assault and battery and just when you think it couldn't be worse you have to pay the bills to your lawyer and the other persons and the award for damages ensuing from your intentional tort.
If you see infractions and you are indeed seriously concerned, (rather than a half hearted gripe), take note and with due diligence and dispatch, (note I didn't say anger), notify the appropriate authority.
Finally, on a parting note, try to approach each situation with kindness, respect, understanding, and the possibility that everyone else may not be as gifted and amazing as you but they are trying in their own way. I still haven't met anyone, including me, who doesn't make a bad call once in a while or just screw up. Finding flaws in others doesn't elevate you, but finding the good points and helping out where you can, especially when it’s hard to do so, does.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Welcome to BCFR Fishwhisperer :thumbup:
Where did you get those stats. (I don't doubt them, just curious)
Thanks.
LL
Where did you get those stats. (I don't doubt them, just curious)
Thanks.
LL
1. Complaint - There are too many people fishing the Vedder and its worse than ever and just getting worse-
Statistic- Recreational fishing is on a decline. In 1995 there were 294,439 freshwater fisher persons, reduced to 235,691 by 2000 and further reduced to 211,403 by 2005 which represents an overall reduction of 28% from 1995-2005.
Now are these statistics from those who purchase fishing licenses? Is so, it can be just like a drivers license....there are many out there that drive without a license, I wouldn't put it past me that there are many out there fishing without a license.
When licenses are bought, there should be an attachment with the salmon regs, similar to a cheater so that there shouldn't be any question on what or how many to keep. If you are fishing with your license, with a cheater attached, there shouldn't be an issue.
Statistic- Recreational fishing is on a decline. In 1995 there were 294,439 freshwater fisher persons, reduced to 235,691 by 2000 and further reduced to 211,403 by 2005 which represents an overall reduction of 28% from 1995-2005.
Now are these statistics from those who purchase fishing licenses? Is so, it can be just like a drivers license....there are many out there that drive without a license, I wouldn't put it past me that there are many out there fishing without a license.
When licenses are bought, there should be an attachment with the salmon regs, similar to a cheater so that there shouldn't be any question on what or how many to keep. If you are fishing with your license, with a cheater attached, there shouldn't be an issue.
Thanks for the welcome LL. The stats come from:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/communic/statistics/recreational/canada/2005/REC2005_EN_20070727.pdf
DFO compiles and reports avery 5 years.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/communic/statistics/recreational/canada/2005/REC2005_EN_20070727.pdf
DFO compiles and reports avery 5 years.
one thing most of the complainers dont know is that this type of unethical fishing has been around forever, Ive seen it since the 80's.
if you think the chedder is bad you should have seen the cap during expo 86.
if you think the chedder is bad you should have seen the cap during expo 86.
Awesome, great facts, observations and advice. You made my night.
Welcome aboard whisperer, I agree with you for the most part, and a key point you touched on was the fact there are a lot of lot of novice fishers out there who were introduced to the sport by the sock fest's on the fraser. A lot dont understand how to fish with other tech's besides flossing.
As far as the complaints about crowding , in dfo's stats it would be intresting to see how many licenses are issued in the lower mainland as compared to the rest of the province. What I am getting at is over all there may be a decline in licensing , but in the mainland when the buzz start of fish showing up on the local rivers you only reallyt have a couple choices to fish the vedder, chehalis and possibly the stave, there are others but i'll stick to the main ones. Of those the vedder is by far the most popular and consistant to catch fish when it's hot. This brings out the throngs of weekend warriors whose only concern is to catch a salmon by any means neccesary. This is where the bulk of the complaints come from,the releasing of caught fish, by dragging it up on the shore removing the hook by holding the fish with ones foot and pulling then kicking the fish back to the water. Or by spending the day snagging fish on every other cast and then bitching about always hooking dogs in the back and tail.
I do voice my opinion on the decline of ediquette and techniques on the vedder regularly because I grew up on the vedder. With my families property bordering the ****, I would be down there just about every day, weather permitting from april till nov., so I have seen the decline first hand and am rightfully appauled by the ethics shown on the river these days.
That being said there are still alot of nice pieces of water to work on the river away from the crowds, you just have to walk a little farther. If you want to get worked up fish near the crowds, other wise enjoy a coffee on your hike, and taking the nature on the way, it's the best way I've found to unwind on the flow.
Cheers,
Crazy D
As far as the complaints about crowding , in dfo's stats it would be intresting to see how many licenses are issued in the lower mainland as compared to the rest of the province. What I am getting at is over all there may be a decline in licensing , but in the mainland when the buzz start of fish showing up on the local rivers you only reallyt have a couple choices to fish the vedder, chehalis and possibly the stave, there are others but i'll stick to the main ones. Of those the vedder is by far the most popular and consistant to catch fish when it's hot. This brings out the throngs of weekend warriors whose only concern is to catch a salmon by any means neccesary. This is where the bulk of the complaints come from,the releasing of caught fish, by dragging it up on the shore removing the hook by holding the fish with ones foot and pulling then kicking the fish back to the water. Or by spending the day snagging fish on every other cast and then bitching about always hooking dogs in the back and tail.
I do voice my opinion on the decline of ediquette and techniques on the vedder regularly because I grew up on the vedder. With my families property bordering the ****, I would be down there just about every day, weather permitting from april till nov., so I have seen the decline first hand and am rightfully appauled by the ethics shown on the river these days.
That being said there are still alot of nice pieces of water to work on the river away from the crowds, you just have to walk a little farther. If you want to get worked up fish near the crowds, other wise enjoy a coffee on your hike, and taking the nature on the way, it's the best way I've found to unwind on the flow.
Cheers,
Crazy D
Mabey the reports that are posted should just read "Had a good day on the river"and leave out the pictures and GPS locations ;D
Yes jet boat you are right this type of unethical fishing has been around for a long time,but i also fished locally back then and i dont ever remeber it being near as bad as it is today with as high a level of consistency as i see on our waters today.Fish whisperer, interesting stats and comments but in my opinion all the stats in the world will not paint an accurate picture of the problems that are facing our rivers and fish stocks.jetboatjim said:one thing most of the complainers dont know is that this type of unethical fishing has been around forever, Ive seen it since the 80's.
if you think the chedder is bad you should have seen the cap during expo 86.
"Don't confuse me with facts; I've made up my mind!" Tough to fix a problem when you won't recognize just what the problem is. The reason we have studies, statistics and projections is to allow us to see the picture beyond our own little view of the problem. If one only goes to the Vedder Canal and Pegleg, it perfectly reasonable that one would believe that the fishing world is going to hell in a handbasket.searun17 said:Fish whisperer, interesting stats and comments but in my opinion all the stats in the world will not paint an accurate picture of the problems that are facing our rivers and fish stocks.
Exactly why I left the dark side, Lund-lubber... exactly why I left the dark side 
. There is a benefit though for all these banters, it makes the positive much more profound.
. There is a benefit though for all these banters, it makes the positive much more profound.I'll agree that there are a bunch of yahoos on the Vedder but there are a lot of real genuine decent folks out there as well. On my last outing I ran into a real nice fellow. We were both getting geared up on a week day in the pissing down rain and agreed that despite the weather, the day was going to be better that being at work. This guy had some good knowledge about the river that he readily shared with me. I am a novice fisherman and appreciate any tips or advice that one can pass on to me. The last time I was on the Vedder was last season and again, I ran into a guy who gave me all kinds of pointers and cheered me on as I fought a big spring.
My advice is try not to focus on the jerks and realise we are all out for the same thing...to catch fish. Like others have said, friendly advice goes a long way.
My advice is try not to focus on the jerks and realise we are all out for the same thing...to catch fish. Like others have said, friendly advice goes a long way.
One does not only need to go to pegleg or the canal to see the problems that are out on our waters,go up and down the vedder , the chehalis,many of the fraser bars ,stave ,cap etc , etc,its all over on our mainland waters just varying extents ,and that is a fact,if you want to be confused by the facts fish any of these waters when the fish are in and you will get all the facts one needs to see ,Here are some facts ,how about all the fish dragged up on the shore only to recieve a quick boot back in the river,people fishing without licences or illegal gear,poaching,bouncing betties and 12 ft leaders on the vedder snagging every fish in sight ,fights breaking out at places such as the scale bar because someone fudged in a little to close while flossing sockeye,etc,all facts,these are just some of the problems we face in a time of declining fish stocks and yes it gets worse every year.sorry but i dont need statistics to tell me what is going on out on our waters,i see it every where and on a regular basis on my trips out,the new catch phrase on the vedder on sunday,{no this was not in the canal} i got a fish is it hooked in the mouth,fact.professori said:"Don't confuse me with facts; I've made up my mind!" Tough to fix a problem when you won't recognize just what the problem is. The reason we have studies, statistics and projections is to allow us to see the picture beyond our own little view of the problem. If one only goes to the Vedder Canal and Pegleg, it perfectly reasonable that one would believe that the fishing world is going to hell in a handbasket.searun17 said:Fish whisperer, interesting stats and comments but in my opinion all the stats in the world will not paint an accurate picture of the problems that are facing our rivers and fish stocks.
It has become so deplorable on our waters that DFO, MOE and many concerned anglers are forcing change.
No amount of statistics or feel good RAH RAH posts will change the TRUTH.
The truth is all anglers need a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself, will your children be able to enjoy this resource if we continue down this path.
As an angler who has watched the erosion of sportfishing in the Lower mainland, I find posts such as this one are both misleading and ignorant of the facts.
I call it "DOING THE OSTRICH", and I will not partake, thanks goodness others have popped their heads up and are forcing changes.
No amount of statistics or feel good RAH RAH posts will change the TRUTH.
The truth is all anglers need a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself, will your children be able to enjoy this resource if we continue down this path.
As an angler who has watched the erosion of sportfishing in the Lower mainland, I find posts such as this one are both misleading and ignorant of the facts.
I call it "DOING THE OSTRICH", and I will not partake, thanks goodness others have popped their heads up and are forcing changes.
There is TRUTH found on everyone's input in this thread--EVEN the thread itself is very very informative and somewhat gives out a temporary form of relief from all the negativity one finds on our banks and on our fishing forums. Another fact is the new breed of anglers out there that can clearly devastate our fisheries like locusts. I know everyone here know this fact and finding temporary relief from this will not fix or combat this issue. Everyone here knows that there is something very DESTRUCTIVE on our rivers these days.
I find it very disturbing to read about posts by some of our more experienced anglers saying how they couldn't believe the poachers actually don't show any signs of remorse or any wrong-doing on thier actions. Clearly we need more experienced anglers that TAKE ACTION instead of cowering in forums only to go back to the banks facing a new breed of wrong-doers over and over again. The poachers now are much more devastating because THEY BELIEVE IT'S THE ONLY WAY!!!!
Fix it.
I find it very disturbing to read about posts by some of our more experienced anglers saying how they couldn't believe the poachers actually don't show any signs of remorse or any wrong-doing on thier actions. Clearly we need more experienced anglers that TAKE ACTION instead of cowering in forums only to go back to the banks facing a new breed of wrong-doers over and over again. The poachers now are much more devastating because THEY BELIEVE IT'S THE ONLY WAY!!!!
Fix it.
Sorry guys. Read my posts and you will see that I agree with most of whaqt you say. Things are bad out there. However, I have a few years on most of the members here and have heard plenty of doom-sayers come and go. My point was not that things don't have to change, merely that ignorant responses are a waste of time. Statistical analysis provides us with an over-all picture that is more accurate than one person's take on what he/she observes. I have no doubt that all of the practices searun17 points to happen. The point of statistical analysis is to determine how often it happens, and where to go from there. Talk about ostriches, anyone with the attitude of "I don't care what your stats show, i'll believe what suits me regardless." is about as-hide -your head as it gets. How many unlicensed anglers are out there (I assume you were checking licenses, searun)? How many fights break out? How many barbed hooks have you seen in use? Does everyone boot their catch back into the river? By the way, I spend plenty of time out on the water (not as much as I'd like, but more than most tho') so yeah, I see it too. I am somewhat encouraged that most of the boorish behaviour occurs on those runs that DFO has deemed "gong shows" by providing enhanced meat factories, with the full knowledge that they will be very heavily pressured. I go to a lot of water most are too damn lazy to hit and therefore see a lot less of this behaviour. If that makes me an ostrich, so be it. At least I am willing to listen to others and try to understand what is happening, not just to get my knickers in a knot over what I perceive to be going on.
I believe you are one of the positives on this one, Proffessory. I don't think there was a need for you to say sorry.
But the fact of the matter is, we anglers on this forums see the problems most of the time we head out on river systems like Vedder, Harrison, Chehalis, Stave etc. etc... These rivers play a major role in the salmonoid fishery in B.C. wich has been threatened for years now as we know it. Now, the issue we currently face is the new generation of Poachers or the un-informed anglers on our banks these days on mixing in with the old generation of poachers or un-informed anglers. . . Heck, there are actually Poachers imposing as "un-informed" anglers out there as well.
Now as part of the law abiding and knowlegeable anglers on our banks, I believe we are part of the solution. We see the problems that endanger our resources most of the time we head out on these river systems. We have threads in these forums that direct us on gathering more information on statistics(as professorry pointed out on his post) where we can see where we are and head from there. We have each other to exchange ideas, share experiences, and vent our frustrations, but going after each other's throats instead of helping each other is not going to get rid of this threat. I belive with the resources we have againts these "un-informed" anglers, we can make a difference.
But the fact of the matter is, we anglers on this forums see the problems most of the time we head out on river systems like Vedder, Harrison, Chehalis, Stave etc. etc... These rivers play a major role in the salmonoid fishery in B.C. wich has been threatened for years now as we know it. Now, the issue we currently face is the new generation of Poachers or the un-informed anglers on our banks these days on mixing in with the old generation of poachers or un-informed anglers. . . Heck, there are actually Poachers imposing as "un-informed" anglers out there as well.
Now as part of the law abiding and knowlegeable anglers on our banks, I believe we are part of the solution. We see the problems that endanger our resources most of the time we head out on these river systems. We have threads in these forums that direct us on gathering more information on statistics(as professorry pointed out on his post) where we can see where we are and head from there. We have each other to exchange ideas, share experiences, and vent our frustrations, but going after each other's throats instead of helping each other is not going to get rid of this threat. I belive with the resources we have againts these "un-informed" anglers, we can make a difference.
Wow the average for BC is around 7 fish per person? Personally I've kept 0 over 3 years .... wow i've been losing out! :cheers:
Stats, Stats, Stats. The problem with stats is that they are not always accurate enough to paint an exact picture of the problems out there. Sure some of those stats are correct with an accurate number like the one for the fishing liscence, but as far as the one for the amount of fish retained I would love to see where they got their info as how does one do an accurate count. It is impossible. The only way to get an accurate picture of the problems is to talk to the people that are there to witness what is going on. Searun is bang on with what he says and I should know as I have been fishing with him for the last 7 years. Even in that time things have changed and not for the better. Yes it is not all dome and glom but when you go to those areas that are the problem you get to see it first hand. The nice thing is we also bypass these areas and walk on by. I would love to see numerous changes in the regs in hopes to solve this problem but I doubt that will ever happen. I just hope that the fishery will survive long enough for my son,and his kids and any future generations to have the opportunities that I have enjoyed. Maybe during these times their should be a fulltime CO just for the Veddar system as without changes this would be the only way.
This of course is just my :2cents: .
This of course is just my :2cents: .
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
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