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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm under the understanding that lets just say the hatchery coho we catch this year, there parents were from 1 wild stock gene So every return of coho every year is not produced from a hatchery return coho? Only wild fish are used to produce hatchery coho and steelhead? This to me is from what i've herd not fact by no means! Can anyone shed light on this topic? thanks!

CK
 

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That's the gist of it CK.

The idea is to keep the genetic stock as pure as possible. Although this issue is still quite heavily debated and by no means settled, the basic scientific premise is that the gene pool would become weaker if hatchery fish were used to stock generations to come.

To have as diverse a gene pool as possible is one of the best ways for individual populations of fish to adapt and survive their changing environs. The potential for hatchery fish to breed with wild fish is always there. In theory, over generations of fish, the gene pool would become diluted from the "inbreeding" of hatchery stock with wild fish...

More scary, if the hatchery stock were generated from hatchery fish, that gene pool would begin to show amplifications of some genes and the muting of others. This is not a "natural" type selection and could potentially carry over to our wild stock gene pool if the two mix, as I mentioned before.

Evolution is usually a very slow process, and we're dealing with individual genes here, so we wouldn't likely see much in the way of change in our lifetimes or even those of our children, but the potential for damage is there.

That's the theory anyway, it's not an easy one to explain, and there's a little more to it, but I hope that satisfies your question...

rib
 

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when I was working at chilliwack Hatchery, Coho were taken from hatchery stock, only steelhead were taken from wild stock...

Maybe that has changed, but that's the way it was back in the early 90's...

Cheers,
Nicole
 

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I wonder if they still do that...they definitely do not with steelhead CK. Perhaps the sheer number of coho in comparison to steelhead makes it seem ok to do that...? Seems like a bit of a double standard though.

Interestingly enough, I was walking along a spawning channel with my girlfriend the other day, and you could see coho paired up on their redds. Most were wild, but there were definitely some hatchery fish paired up with wilds as well.

With all the talk about preserving wild steelhead, and the scientific arguments that coincide, I am surprised they haven't employed the same standards with all our hatchery produced species.
 

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one has to wonder, how many of the brood stock "wild" fish they get are actually true wilds with no hatchery mixing? I have always found some wilds to be incredible fighters while some are sluggish like a lot of hatchery fish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well thats strange! I always thought the hatchery coho's were a one generation fish from a wild stock! I see a few videos of where they catch wild steelhead for this reason but for coho's doesn't seem right! Seen an increase in wild hook ups over the past 5 or so years fishing the vedder, Just doesn't seem right to me t use hatchery fish to reproduce more salmon! Thanks Nicole and Ribwart for the info!

CK
 

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You got me thinking CK - so I have tried to track down some kind of a description of a policy by DFO - so far have downloaded several reports - mainly from 2004 thru 2006

one is 90 plus pages - If I find anything interesting will let you know - otherwise I will just buy more paper

would be nice if there was a summary guidline to go by without all the legalize and word padding

Oakey
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Oakey thanks bud for your effort! I've been doing the same thig looking to see what i can find! All i find is pages and pages of info from 2005-2006 I'll keep looking as well! :beerchug:

CK
 

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When hatchery fish are raised in the hatchery, are all the fish clipped? Ive heard yes and no, maybe the fish that you saw in the spawning channal Rib were actually hatchery fish that were never clipped. Last steelhead season I was fishing near some brood stock guys and they were only taking wild fish for brood.
 

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On hatchery visits I have been making lately, I noticed they had placed hatchery Coho in with wild fish. When I asked about this, they said it was not a concern.

With regards to clipping the fish, the hatchery staff informed me that they are beginning to move away from clipping fish. They also said a lot of smaller hatcheries are beginning to do this. Not sure if this is due to funding, or a philosophy that they are beginning to carry out enhancement and thus, not producing fish for the purpose of being "hatchery" fish and thus, angler accessable for the dinner table.

Number of "identifiable" hatchery fish in the future may begin to dwindle? Hatchery fish may become a thing of the past? Maybe healthy systems will begin to move to a plan like the Stamp where you are allowed to keep one hatchery fish and one wild fish?

Only time will tell.

Dano
 

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Interesting topic...I'll elaborate on my earlier statement...the spawning channel I was referring to was not in the hatchery, it was part of the side channel habitat developed on the upper river. Most of the fish were wild or possibly unclipped hatchery fish...
 

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I would think that any rivers that have been stocked from a hatchery surely have a very limited truly "wild" population if any. Depending on how many generations have been exposed to a hatchery I suppose. I think I heard that Washington isn't clipping their hatchery fish either but I'd have to check that.

So it would seem that efforts to distinguish hatchery from wild has been abandoned? Maybe the end of being able to at least take home a hatchery fish? So does that mean a change to the regs eventually?
 

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I was talking to a DFO guy earlier this fall about the fin clip situation, this is basically what he told me.
Fish were put here on earth with all the fins they have for a reason....swimming, how streamlined they are, manuverability.....
All of these factors change when even one fin is clipped. This makes their journey to sea and back harder to survive. With less manuverability and being less streamlined they can fall prey to seals, whales,....etc.

So they have started to think that if they dont clip fish, they will have a better chance in the wild. Thus, a better survival/return rate to spawn.

Just what I was told, but it makes for a very valid point.
 

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Fish were put here on earth with all the fins they have for a reason....swimming, how streamlined they are, manuverability.....
All of these factors change when even one fin is clipped.
I gotta agree with that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So from what i have read here the fisheries and hatcheries programs are going to decrease the amount of hatchery fish they clip? This makes absolutly no sence on there part for the hatcherys bring in reveneu from sportsfishers and alot of it! Why would they do this? Makes no sence to me! Hatchery fish weather they be one generation fish from a wild witch IMO should be all the time, or 2-3 generation fish from a hatchery fish we should always have from now till the end of time! Hatcherys are a good indicator on the survival of the fish they let go are they not?
Confused ???

CK
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
i asked a few questions about this topic but i did speak with one person who works at the seymour river hatchery and This is what he had to say!

Hi

In regards to your question, does the Seymour Hatchery use wild or hatchery fish in our broodstock, here is the answer.

In order to ensure the best genetics are passed on to the next generation, the Seymour Hatchery will try to use only wild fish for our broodstock.

Almost always, 100% of our coho broodstock will be wild fish. In addition, every single coho smolt that is released from the hatchery is marked with an adipose fin clip.

For steelhead, just like the coho, our goal is to only use wild fish. However, due to declining stocks and the infrequency with which steelhead are caught, a hatchery fish may have to be used. If a hatchery fish must be used, it will be crossed with a wild fish. We will not cross a hatchery fish with a hatchery fish.

The proportion of which fish return to the river is also monitored. If we start to see a proportion of hatchery fish return that is greater than 50% of the population, we will reduce the number of hatchery fish that are released. This practice helps to reduce the possibility that hatchery fish out-compete wild fish due to the number of fish, and not the fitness of the fish.

Some other hatcheries may use hatchery-origin fish more frequently due to convenience (if it is too hard to get wild fish). As well, some larger hatcheries may only adipose fin clip a portion of their fish.

Mainly due to our small size, the Seymour River Hatchery is able to pay close attention to our fish stocks and make management decisions that are in the best interest of the fish themselves.

Thanks for the inquiry! I am happy to answer any more questions you might have.


I'll ask a few more questions and get a few more answers!

CK
 

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Looks like the Seymour hatchery is doing their best to keep the bloodlines from crossing too much and also identifying hatchery fish with the fin clipping. Hopefully the others have the same agenda.

Good job CK.
 

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From the personnel I've talked to from Fraser Valley hatchery( where alot of steelhead stuff takes place), it is not un common to use one hatchery parent when numbers of available wild fish are low.

Stave, Coquihalla, and a few others have seen clipped fish used for brood.

Luckily the Vedder has ample un clipped fish so it is not done there. But certainly some clipped fish are breeding naturally in this system and the runs seems to not suffer from this :thumbup:.
 
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