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Discussion Starter #1
I Just got back from both Canadian Tire and 3Vets, surprised and empty handed. I still need a license, and I’m leaving for a fishing trip in about 2 hours. Don’t come down on me with the “it’s your fault for not being prepared” because I’ve been buying my licenses in exactly the same manner for the last 15 years and had absolutely no logical reason to assume that system would change so drastically.
It would be like going to fill up the truck, only to find that I can’t without first downloading and printing out a gas-card from chevron.com before driving to the gas station.

I knew that the government was going to be ADDING the ability to easily purchase your fishing license online, but certainly didn't expect the retail shops to stop selling them.
“Add” the e-license, sure. Great idea, I’m sure a lot of people will find that convenient. Essentially REPLACE the system with e-license only??? Boneheads!

According to the staff at 3-Vets, the only way they could continue selling the licenses would have been to purchase a 'special computer' which accesses the system and prints out the license. "We'd have to pay for the computer, and we don't make any money off the sale of the licenses" they said. So they simply opted out of being involved.

I could probably rant about how stupid their statement is from a business perspective, as I'm probably only one of hundreds of people that go to places like 3-Vets to swoop in and do a one-stop-shop. I'll pick up whatever camping supplies, food stuffs, the odd piece of clothing, and of course all my fishing gear – WHILE I’m there to pick up my license. I go there BECAUSE they have fishing licenses. For a business to say that it’s “not worth it because it’s a new investment” on their end is ridiculously short sighted. Didn’t they have to pay for their nice display units? Their broadcasted music system? The extra parking space? There’s a whole list of things that a business pays for that has one purpose only – to draw people in. Come for the music, stay for the beer. Anyways, enough ranting about the stupidity of that business theory. I’m probably only worth about $600 / year to their business, so I suppose they won’t miss it.

My father-in-law is 82, lives in a small town, doesn’t have a computer, has never used the interwebs and probably never will. He still fishes though, I was on the Vedder with him last summer, and I’m hoping for more summers with him to come. I know that he’s traditionally bought his license at some tiny little roadside shop somewhere out by Hope. What the hell are people like him supposed to do with this new system?
What about people rolling through the province on a vacation, planning to buy a 2 or 3 day license from the same little bait-n-tackle shop they got it from last summer, and the summer before that? You think they’re going to try to find the nearest internet café to download and print? Doubt it.

My biggest concern is the negative impact it’s going to have on the fishery. Not only that people are going to be fishing without a license more often than ever. I mean all sorts of regulations and guidelines are going to be much more dissed than they already are. It’s gonna get much uglier.

The biggest impact of this new system is the fact that people aren’t going to be getting their hands on the hard-copy of the fishing regulations magazine. The salmon supplement, the catch and release updates for 2009, etc. When they buy the license at a shop, they also get handed the nice glossy magazine with all the rules and hard-to-read regulations.
I realize that doesn’t mean they are going to read it, but it’s sure as hell going to increase the chances of people reading it if they’re given a hard copy. Yeah, yeah, it’s up to each and every individual fisherperson to make sure they’re up to date with the latest regulations, and if it means they have to read the regulations online, then that’s just a little bit more work for them.

Fact of the matter is, people already don’t read the regs. We’ve all seen it. How many times have you seen somebody at the river’s edge doing something stupid and illegal, barbed hooks, multiple lines, or letting their 6 year old yank 6” trout after 6” trout and throw them in a bucket. Whenever you approach these people and confront them with the regs, the answer is always the same:
“Oh? I didn’t know!”
Sure, that’s probably just a lack of respect and straight up BS most of the time, but with this new system the level of ignorance is going to skyrocket.

I swear sometimes, I think this government is trying to run the fishery with a deliberate malice. Self destructive idiocy. There’s no way they can be this clueless by accident.

So, to sum up, the Vendor shops out there that have opted out of this new system because they think it’s an expensive pain in the ass , you’re right: It is. But buck up and do your part. The initial investment in the new system will continue to drive business to your establishment where the people will buy other stuff (pay for the system in a few weeks). More importantly, it keeps the dissemination of information flowing freely. Educating the new and current anglers with this year’s do’s and don’ts is tantamount to keeping this fishery healthy, and if we completely remove an already difficult source of information, our rivers and lakes are simply not going to be there for our grand kids.
 
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I'll keep it short. There is no special computer required to use e-license program. All that is required to sign up as a vendor is a regular computer, internet access and a printer.

Once the program got started they eliminated paper licenses. A bit premature as the system continues to breakdown. Once they realized that this wasn't going to work and that the guides and lodges in remote area's were no longer going to sell fishing licenses, they offered an exemption to all vendors. If you are a fishing guide, have no internet or it will cost you more than $100 to get set up, you can apply for an exemption and still sell paper licenses.

This exemption is only unitl they get this system working properly which may take a while by the looks of it. The Fraaser Valley Angling Guide Association is currently working with the ministry on a special one day guided license for those people who plan on fishing with a guide. Not sure what it will look like yet but that should help people who are only fishing one day with a guide.

Soooooooooo, Three vets is not telling you the entire story, sounds like they have just opted out of the entire fish license sales program. Can't say i blame them.

Vic
STS
 

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Thanks for the guide's perspective RA40. I think scooby has made several good pts. I sold retail tackle for a year at a popular shop in Richmond. Their wise business approach to licenses was that it gets people in the door, despite the fact that they make no $ off the licenses themselves. I saw this first hand..... It's easy to drop $50 while you're 'just in to pick up a license'. Sooooooo...3vets, time for a performance review of your business/marketing manager.

Reducing less computer-savvy folks to the regs through online licenses is also a valid point IMO. Good post Scooby.
 

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IMO, Chevron gave plenty of advanced notice to purchase and print the new gas card.

Their website had the notice posted since January.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
IMO, Chevron gave plenty of advanced notice to purchase and print the new gas card.

Their website had the notice posted since January.

Like I said, ADD the convenience of an online, printable license, great idea! Love it!

But REPLACE the currently available over-the-counter system with something that is only available online... not so brilliant (for all the reasons I mentioned)
 

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the most expensive is not the computer but the human resources to assist people or the staffs THAT are not that good with computer
 

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Discussion Starter #8
...they offered an exemption to all vendors. If you are a fishing guide, have no internet or it will cost you more than $100 to get set up, you can apply for an exemption and still sell paper licenses.

Soooooooooo, Three vets is not telling you the entire story, sounds like they have just opted out of the entire fish license sales program. Can't say i blame them.

Vic
STS
Thanks for the additional info. I didn't get the full story from 3-Vets by the sounds of it.
Yeah, no doubt this is a brand new bureaucratic nightmare, especially having to now apply for an exemption to continue.
Still, there's a huge loss of value and effectiveness in not having them available in all the old locations. I'd hope the vendors would try to keep a bit of an eye on the environmental sensitivity of the industry, and do their part to play a positive role by keeping up with the program.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
the most expensive is not the computer but the human resources to assist people or the staffs THAT are not that good with computer
man is that ever true! If the process is like any other .bc.gov website, the first page should read "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here" Their websites are next to impossible to navigate.
You've brought up a really good point. I never even accounted for the clusterpuck of time that it would probably take for an employee of whatever shop to go through the process of entering in all the data required for a customers license.
What they need is a totally streamlined and simple process available to the vendors, something which they have absolutely NO idea how to deliver.
Sheesh, it's doomed.

OK, as my printer is out of ink, I'm going to head on down to Army and Navy, where they apparently have the ability to do this online thing. Should be interesting to watch what sort of process is actually involved.
 

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OK, as my printer is out of ink, I'm going to head on down to Army and Navy, where they apparently have the ability to do this online thing. Should be interesting to watch what sort of process is actually involved.
It's identical to the process you would go through at home, only someone else is inputing the information (after they verify you are who you say you are).
 

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Like I said, ADD the convenience of an online, printable license, great idea! Love it!

But REPLACE the currently available over-the-counter system with something that is only available online... not so brilliant (for all the reasons I mentioned)
They "added" the convenience of purchasing the licence online in 2008. The notice posted since January stated that as of 1 April 2009, the only method of purchasing a licence would be online.

There are government offices which sell the licence, as well as a number of retail outlets. Granted it may not be "super easy" to get a licence, but it's certainly not as hard as people make it out to be.
 

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I've never had a problem. And have bought five licences and various tags so far. My only problem is that I don't want to pay 70 bucks for new in for my printer! So I have to print it somewhere else.

If you've ever had to deal with the people from BC MSP, you'll know that the new e-licencing system is a breeze. Trying to call and talk to someone who at BC MSP who can help you is a nightmare. It took me literally hours and hours of calls over many days to fix the issue i had.
 

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I Just got back from both Canadian Tire and 3Vets, surprised and empty handed. I still need a license, and I’m leaving for a fishing trip in about 2 hours.
Pacific Angler is right around that area. Why didn't you go there?

Don’t come down on me with the “it’s your fault for not being prepared” because I’ve been buying my licenses in exactly the same manner for the last 15 years and had absolutely no logical reason to assume that system would change so drastically.
But it IS your fault. Don't blame somebody else for your ignorance and lack of planning.

I knew that the government was going to be ADDING the ability to easily purchase your fishing license online, but certainly didn't expect the retail shops to stop selling them.
yeah, it is EASIER. So why did you wait until the last minute to get one?

Self destructive idiocy. There’s no way they can be this clueless by accident.
pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot.

Rants like this are always funny to me and worth a barbed response. It's like, people don't think things through and get all huffy and puffy when it doesn't go their way. then it's everybody else's fault but their own.

watch now, this guys going to get all mad at me and call me names or something rather than just saying "you know, i really didn't plan this out and it's my actions and behaviours that are the direct cause of the situation I am in."
 

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Ha ha....what would you expect man?! You've been antagonistic and in no way helpful!

Look, he advertised his thread as a rant and I think he raised a few good pts. , so to pull select quotes out of his thread and add what i'm sure you think are witty comments is pretty weak. And the little lecture at the end.....bah, save it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
watch now, this guys going to get all mad at me and call me names or something rather than just saying "you know, i really didn't plan this out and it's my actions and behaviours that are the direct cause of the situation I am in."
Nope. That gets nowhere.
You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and seeing as though we are a bunch of people who are passionate about fishing.... I'd venture to guess we're all about the flies.

(Haven't had much coffee this afternoon, so this'll be less wordy than it could be.)

Basically, my bitching is about this new design of the system.

Goal of the government are these:
1. Everybody that fishes has a valid license.
2. Everybody that fishes knows and follows the rules and regulations.
3. Receive full revenue for the sale of tags and licenses.

That's pretty much it. Now, as the government, take the above three goals and design something that will totally nail that result that's easy for everybody to use, thereby ensuring success in your goals.

Problem comes with trying to 'use' it.

The users of a poorly designed system are usually broken down into 2 categories; Apologists or Survivors.

The Apologists are the ones saying "Oh god, I'm sorry, I didn't understand that part. It's my fault for not preparing properly. It's my own stupidity for not doing enough research. I'll never figure this out, it's all so confusing and aw geez, I just don't get it. I'll do better next time"

The Survivor group are the ones that take pride in going through all the extra work REQUIRED in figuring out the bells, whistles and flaming hoops of the system. They almost gloat at their 'expert' status, like your geeky nephew who has 7 computer systems in various states of dis-assembly in the basement. They're prideful, and say things like "you idiots, why don't you just ctrl-shift-f5 to get into the advanced config menu, hold down space, hit enter three times, and then hand-edit the .conf file to remove the reference to the boot drivers.... Here, let me do it!"

A properly designed system, the other hand, doesn't leave room for either group:

You can't fall back on being an Apologist, because you breezed through the well designed, user friendly process. Nor can you be the Survivor and gloat about your level of required understanding and research capabilities in achieving the task, because none of that was required.

It's just human nature, we learn patterns. It's the only reason we're still on this earth. Fire = burrrns, grizzly bear = adrenalin, rightpedal = gas, leftpedal = brake, hot water's on the left, cold water's on the right, don't give the wife Jagermeister shots, etc, etc. We learn how something works, and that maps out our future actions.

It's a pretty simple formula, but admittedly it's not followed most of the time.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with falling into the "survivor" category, a lot of things are difficult and by their very nature require years of practice and research. Hell, we fish! I can't think of a more rewarding example of enjoying the difficult process and years of practice it takes to finally achieve the desired goal, but buying a fishing license is not fishing.

So, unless the government has a couple other hidden goals on their list that I don't know about, like
4. dramatically increase revenue by vehicular seizures and poaching fines ...

Then they've simply and totally screwed this up.

And yes, I now have my license. 8.5 x 11 printout, doesn't fit in my wallet, it's not water proof, and the little digital code THAT'S RIGHT BESIDE THE signature line (that's placed above the small print of "do not deface this code or licence is null and void") now has a big black pen strike through it from my over exhuberant autograph.

Again, brilliant design.
 

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Now, as the government, take the above three goals and design something that will totally nail that result that's easy for everybody to use, thereby ensuring success in your goals.
You can't please everyone all the time.

What they did do was design a system that the majority of the people could use and built safeguards into the system for those who are less computer savy than the majority.

There will always be a low percentage of people who will lose out regardless of what system is used vs streamlining the process of acquiring a licence.
 

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I would be more pi$$ed that the staff at 3 vets didn`t direct you to Pacific Angler, Michael and Young or Steveston Marine...for that matter even phone to make sure one of these shops was able to provide you with the licence. That`s poor customer service imo.

The last time I was in Steveston Marine by Granville Island(rare trip to that store) the guy at the fishing counter(used to work at M&Y) saved me a trip to Poco and phoned a competitive marine store to verify if they had the item in stock as Steveston Marine was oos of the item. It turns out the Poco competitors store didn`t have the item in stock either. Now that`s great customer service.

Cheers
Nuggy
 

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Basically, my bitching is about this new design of the system.

---snip---

The users of a poorly designed system are usually broken down into 2 categories; Apologists or Survivors.
and how is this system poorly designed? granted it crashed on the first day of april because SO MANY PEOPLE were using it to get new licenses, but I got mine without any real problems on opening day. i don't think anyone's had any problems since then?

i know some people (mostly young people) have had problems because they don't have credit cards. but i think that's the only hiccup in the system?

everybody knew about this change, except you obviously. so now you want to blame the government for your difficulties? like i said, seems to be everyone's problem but your own.

and wtf, weren't you leaving on a trip in two hours when you posted this?
 

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I knew nothing of the new online snaFU, when heading to the interior for some fishing recently. By sheer fluke I happened to stop in at Walmart and picked up a normal paper licence there. Seems they have been exempted and still sell the regular old style fishing licence. Walmart is far from what I'd call a tackle store, but it was nice to buy the regular license. At least you know the website won't be down when you need to purchase one, as many people have complained about. They fit in your wallet a whole lot easier too.
 
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