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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I am a young fisherman on this forum, and I respect everything I've read, as well I like to give newer fishermen/women new ideas to catch some fish.

After saying that, I speak without financial or extreme moral bias towards any of the directed fisheries.

My problem is with the current fishery as it is. There has been two prominent fisheries this year in southern BC, that being the Somass Sockeye fishery as well as the Fraser sockeye fishery.

These fisheries appear to be open to a gauntlet of fishermen that have waited for years to catch fish.

Now, when you consider the previous runs have been a disaster, one must ultimately realize that 1 in 4 is not a good ratio.

So here comes the Harrison sockeye, these genetically different sockeye. These fish that multiply yearly in the last decade without subject to fish farms or extreme predation.

My question is this, With DFO's ultimatum on getting more fish to the spawning grounds, why aren't they utilizing this unique run to improve the runs. Why do we continue to rely on primitive harvest numbers to base our fisheries management on?

Can someone please help me out?
 

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Please don't confuse any DFO decisions with common sense. Most decisions it appears are made back in Ottawa by someone who has never seen a west coast salmon.
 

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Help is beyond the horizon.

You are asking this complex question that has been out there for years. As much as one gets submerged into the realities - the more difficult solutions appears to are.
Mismanagement happens all over the world - look what is the disaster with Chilean farms nowadays!
Denmark has terminated their salmon stocks in mid-50' - still can not recover.
Enjoy everyday on the river! -(the salvation is beyond the corner).
 

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Who knows what games DFO are playing right now. That is a very intresting point on the Harrison Sock's , Why is it they are flurishing like that? It cant be lack of pressure reaching the gounds as they come the same route. Would DFO ever consider a hatchery program directed at them?. Look at Osoyoos Lake sockeye, warm water and all, they are making a recovery. My question is why has DFO opened the river up so wildly to all parties? you had a commercial opening, a FN economical opening, sporties are out there, and the regular gauntlent of drift nets. Three of the four have no accountability to record actual numbers taken. Why decimate a run that is showing decent returns compared to say the last eight years. Why not let the fish through and see what results it would have in four years. DFO does have a tough job to do, but one has to wonder if the politics involved are going to ultimately destroy the resource. Makes you question what is really going on behind closed doors.
 

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Who knows what games DFO are playing right now. That is a very intresting point on the Harrison Sock's , Why is it they are flurishing like that? It cant be lack of pressure reaching the gounds as they come the same route. Would DFO ever consider a hatchery program directed at them?. Look at Osoyoos Lake sockeye, warm water and all, they are making a recovery. My question is why has DFO opened the river up so wildly to all parties? you had a commercial opening, a FN economical opening, sporties are out there, and the regular gauntlent of drift nets. Three of the four have no accountability to record actual numbers taken. Why decimate a run that is showing decent returns compared to say the last eight years. Why not let the fish through and see what results it would have in four years. DFO does have a tough job to do, but one has to wonder if the politics involved are going to ultimately destroy the resource. Makes you question what is really going on behind closed doors.
Furthermore, some of you may have noticed recent announcements about drought concerns and the considerable impact and danger to fish stocks this year as a result...definitely makes you wonder at the wisdom of exploiting the one strong run we've had in years while at the same time warning of additional dangers to those stocks once they reach their redds. My sense of it, there are many things contributing to the madness, not the least of which is poor and disassociated management to begin with, but also the political motivation to open things up and make it seem as though all is well and good in order to offset the pressure generated by all the negative publicity over run collapses the last few years...
 

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Has the Cohen Commision wrapped up? It is ironic that we currently have a Federal investigation costing millions of dollars and fraught with questionable research into the disappearance of millions of fish last year only to have what looks like a banner year for sockeye this year. We know run size bounces up and down from year to year. I hope the commission can shed light on why the average run size is declining over a long period of time and why we have more extreme variations from year to year.


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That is the irony isn't it...it runs on cycles, this years runs depending on those of 4 years ago, last years runs depended on those of 4 years prior, etc...etc... Now I haven't looked into the numbers from years past, but presumably the returns to the redds reached the required escapement levels to maintain the run and yet depsite all our best efforts, returns floundered the last few years. Whose to say that despite the good return this year, the next cycle won't also collapse due to some unknown cause?

In the Globe & mail today there was an article which quoted fisheries managers saying we need to maximize our harvest because otherwise those fish not harvested will go to waste...in a perfect world maybe. In this case all my instinct screams that we should err on the side of caution, let some extra escapement occur fill those spawning grounds...and yet here we are doing things by the numbers again with no buffer to account for discrepancies in our predictions...Maximize our yield based on minimum escapement requirements has always been the norm. Problem with that is, if the numbers are off or an unknown variable is missed, we can really throw a wrench into things.

This is the peak year for the Adam's run, and things are looking good. Wouldn't it make sense to reduce the harvest a bit to try and account for the unknown variables that caused previous years declines...? Next thing you know we loose our strong year as well...

Record low water levels on the way...eager and likely under recorded harvest due to lack of openings years past...if anyone is looking for a recipe for disaster, the ingredients are listed above.

Signed: "Still worried"
 

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I agree

I agree Ribwart - why are "we" so afraid of letting one more fish arrive at the spawning grounds than the absolute minimum necessary to maintain a run of salmon.

Why would "we" not want to see - an ocean commercial catch / a ceremonial fishery / a native commercial / a river commercial and a sportsfishing opening - that all get a decent share every year and then we still have an abundance of spawners arrive safely to support the same situation occurring four years later.

Why not have an "over" abundance of fish year after year - so when the climate or fish farms or diseases work against the runs we are never at the critical stage - absolute closures or minimal openings may happen - but so "we" ensure a future abundance - not in the hope for the survival of a run.

I thought that the DFO were firstly and formost the Stewards of our resource - unfortunately they appear to be just harvest managers playing political games that ultimately result in russian roulette with our fish stocks.

Oakey
 

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meanwhile late running summer Chinook, early running fall Steelhead, endangered interior Coho and Cultus Sockeye all die in Fraser nets while DFO uses mother natures miracle favor to buy friends and make themselves look good.
 

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I hear you there Rod, this morning the news was all over the commy opening and how great it was to be going back out. Why are they going out again. They were even concerned ththat because of the lack of fisheries over the last couple years that many of the caanery's have closed and were'nt sure if the remaining ones could take the fish. And yet another FN economic opening really how many friggin fish need to be ripped out of the water. There were five different stands I came across driving across the wack yesterday selling socks. Even the sporty opening two weeks is long enough. I have ran into so many people this last week that never fish that are bragging they have 20 plus fish in the freezer. And as Rod said what about the by catch I haven't heard Malloway complaining this year yet. With this prolonged opening and excess of harvesting there has to be a awfull lot of waste going on, what about all the fish that don't get sold at the stands, what about all the freezer burnt fish that are going to get thrown out cause they are left too long because they're sick of eating fish. Why cant we set up realisitic catch quotas, yes there is a estimated 25 million socks coming through why do we have to catch 23 million and hope in four that they are still here. I know it is just a political game but what' going to happen next year when there are no fish due to low returns, or in four if that return collapses the finger pointing is going to be wild. Why do all parties have to keep dipping their fat little hands into the candy jar you would think that there have to be some sore tummies around. Ribwart said it best DFO is playing russian roulette and there is a bullet in the chamber for all three parties involved. Just you wait and see
 

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I hear you there Rod, this morning the news was all over the commy opening and how great it was to be going back out. Why are they going out again........Even the sporty opening two weeks is long enough.....Why do all parties have to keep dipping their fat little hands into the candy jar you would think that there have to be some sore tummies around. Ribwart said it best DFO is playing russian roulette and there is a bullet in the chamber for all three parties involved. Just you wait and see
Although it's always fun to beat up on DFO, the Fraser pink and sockeye fisheries are unique because they are managed by the Fraser River Panel of the Pacific Salmon Commission and have been for the last 25 years ("in-season harvest regulation"). And the Panel is composed of American and Canadian reps from gillnet, seiner, First Nations and recreational groups that all want "their" piece of the pie. Any wonder it's a mishmash and patchwork of openings?
http://www.psc.org/about_org_panels.htm
 
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