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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
But until then this is the situation as I see it.

This is why Imperial Metals can easily get away with all and the smoke and mirrors about what is really happening
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Major+Imperial+Metals+shareholder+billionaire+Murray+Edwards/10102715/story.html

Notice the lack of plans to monitor what is actually happening to the bottom of Quesnel Lake as the sediments rain down on the bottom and effect the place where bugs come from? The thinking here in my estimation is something like this " last thing the public needs to know is the real extent of the insult on the system".

I just hope that the RCMP has the insight to put Gerald MacBurney under protection. The company is going to discredit him asap they can afford to buy all sorts of experts he can't.:2cents:
 

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Thanks Reeman. This is just another reason it's imperative we call our Local MLAs and make it clear to them how displeased we are. I call or email my MLA every time there's a new release of info. Just to remind him there's an election coming and how I feel about Christie Clarke and the rest of the liars, I mean liberals.
 

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I tip my hat to Gerald Macburney for coming forward. I believe he has nothing to gain and a lot to lose for stepping forward.
I first met Gerald in Likely in the early 80,s and can say he is just a working stiff like most of us.
 

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Of course they want to pump the water out of Polley Lake before the, "fall rains". Heaven forbid they actually unplug the lake instead. What they are pumping is their potentially contaminated water that they would be pumping into Quesnel Lake...and surprise surprise the only water testing site currently in Quesnel is one location by Hazeltine Creek, so no one will be the wiser. It is absolutely nuts how things are done here and the MoE plays along by not testing water that needs to be tested in a timely fashion, and not getting the information out to the public that is needed in a timely fashion. The MoEs methodology is so pooched that it basically has no validity on which to draw rock solid conclusions. You can't just keep on moving the testing sites and never test the same location over a period of time. There are several other issues also.

It's always best seek the most unbiased results possible using the most valid methodology. The next bit of news the MoE and IM will give you, based on BC Conservation Officers investigation, is that the blowout was an unavoidable act of God and that will be just fine by the MoE, IM, and the Liberals. It all is so darn pooched it's laughable.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/.../ndp.../article19998597/
 

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"In the interest of transparency", oh that is too funny. The ministry has stated it will no longer be updating it's website. That means the MoE released one week of data to the public and that will be it! The last date, August 10th, had them release data only from only one location, Hazeltine creek. On the 8th they only released test results from one location also even though their map indicates they tested four locations. It has only been through stating how the ministry hasn't been transparent and doing so in a public manner that it appears that the ministry released the very things we stated were missing: a map, names on the map that correspond to posted testing data, releasing all their test data for every site...especially on the first few days, and depth/time that tests were taken. They only released one test result with time of testing. It appears that only on August 4th did they test through the water column(surface, 8m, 15m, and 25m and they found results outside of recommended guidelines. They went to the same location the next day but only tested the surface. No other test indicates that they tested through the water column and only two other tests indicate what depth they tested at which was at the surface. If you find tests outside of the norm at 15 meters down why would you stop testing down in the water column for the remainder of the tests? People do not draw water from Quesnel at the surface.

This reminds me of a cheating spouse who will give you some information but not come clean. You can ask questions and they will answer them but not reveal the important information unless you needle them into a corner.

What the MoE needs to do is have an expert in the field write up all the test results as one would a scientific paper with a proper methodology,observations and conclusions. I want to see an expert put there name to that. Why did they not test any location in the same manner over two days? Give us the reasoning behind testing locations that mostly changed locations everyday. The MoE needs to stop trying to control what information is released, and release all the info you have...period. Then help us understand why you did what appears to be a haphazard and brainless job of planning out the testing. Failure to do this will only make people assume that the MoE very deliberately sought results that showed the exactly the sort of data that the Liberal government and IM would want to see.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
the layer of crap to hide this disaster just keeps getting thicker!

"In the interest of transparency", oh that is too funny. The ministry has stated it will no longer be updating it's website. That means the MoE released one week of data to the public and that will be it! The last date, August 10th, had them release data only from only one location, Hazeltine creek. On the 8th they only released test results from one location also even though their map indicates they tested four locations. It has only been through stating how the ministry hasn't been transparent and doing so in a public manner that it appears that the ministry released the very things we stated were missing: a map, names on the map that correspond to posted testing data, releasing all their test data for every site...especially on the first few days, and depth/time that tests were taken. They only released one test result with time of testing. It appears that only on August 4th did they test through the water column(surface, 8m, 15m, and 25m and they found results outside of recommended guidelines. They went to the same location the next day but only tested the surface. No other test indicates that they tested through the water column and only two other tests indicate what depth they tested at which was at the surface. If you find tests outside of the norm at 15 meters down why would you stop testing down in the water column for the remainder of the tests? People do not draw water from Quesnel at the surface.


This reminds me of a cheating spouse who will give you some information but not come clean. You can ask questions and they will answer them but not reveal the important information unless you needle them into a corner.

What the MoE needs to do is have an expert in the field write up all the test results as one would a scientific paper with a proper methodology,observations and conclusions. I want to see an expert put there name to that. Why did they not test any location in the same manner over two days? Give us the reasoning behind testing locations that mostly changed locations everyday. The MoE needs to stop trying to control what information is released, and release all the info you have...period. Then help us understand why you did what appears to be a haphazard and brainless job of planning out the testing. Failure to do this will only make people assume that the MoE very deliberately sought results that showed the exactly the sort of data that the Liberal government and IM would want to see.
Science for convenience and obscuration of facts. Again the MoE does not really exist any longer as an independent entity. Neither do the "conversation officers" Who Christie .gov has given the task of dealing with the legal ramifications of enforcing the clean up. LOLx3.

Watch the interview that was done on Global news when she showed up for a "healing ceremony" near the lake for a photo op to show the public she cares about the environment. At that time she let loose with some fluff about how " if infractions against the law have occurred then the conservation officers will charge the offending parties and enforce the current regulations" PFFF her spin doctors must have cringed when they wrote that response for her!!

I have not seen a conversation officer actually doing squat about any of the obvious infractions that go on in this province for about 10-15 years! They have been all effectively castrated by her government and are incapable of effective action anywhere other than in places where tourists can see the bullshiet that goes on in this province.

I am disgusted as a caring citizen of this province. It is politically correct to have an "environmental conscience" about our beautiful province but the truth is that this disaster has only become a photo opp for the greedy jerks who dominate and run the place.
 

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I come from Ontario and actually was on Q lake fishing 4 days before breach. For a guy from Ontario who has fished a lot of that province, there are very few lakes that come close to equaling what you have here for fishing. http://www.fish-hawk.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46023 For me it was worth the effort and cost in getting there. The lake is a fishing jewel. If development was managed properly it could stay that way and even be improved. There probably is no place like BC in North America. What a draw you could continue to grow into, if you keep up a standard while the rest of NA continues to spoil their resources. You guys don't know how good you have it!

Had the MoE done things right from the start I'd of gone good on BC and not thought about it again. Instead I am motivated because I knew the MoE was "holding". Yesterday we learn, surprise..surprise...that the silt could be toxic to fish. But don't worry about Quesnel because thankfully it is a deep lake and ugly contaminants won't leach into the water, it's all going to stay at the creek mouth. Well the lake isn't deep at that location. They are wrong about the sediment not moving, and if aggregate sediment is so stable as to not leach why put it in a tailings pond in the first place?
 

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By allowing the discharge of Polley lake water into Hazeltine creek the MOE has basically declared Quesnel lake a tailings pond. This releases Imperial Metals from its obligation to make any effort to clean up its effluent.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
By allowing the discharge of Polley lake water into Hazeltine creek the MOE has basically declared Quesnel lake a tailings pond. This releases Imperial Metals from its obligation to make any effort to clean up its effluent.
You hit the nail on the head. Hazeltine is no longer a viable watercourse in any sense of the word. It is now a tailing outfall for the mine. As previously stated the only action that makes any sense is divert all run-off from all sources away from it and stop it from sending sediments down into Quesnel Lake any other remedial action is complete smoke and mirrors and worse a waste of money and effort.

Will it be expensive to staunch the flow of sediments into the main body of Quesnel Lake? Without a doubt. Again we are simply putting the burden upon our children to deal with our greed and stupidity. We are economic cowards and worse still, lazy as a people with our collective heads stuck in the muck.

The statement that we are acting here little better than "pigs in paradise" insults only pigs, not the humans in this province who are ignoring and pillaging the precious environment we all share and then claim to be acting in the interests of the country.
 

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10549966_10152653274397154_297321363641220360_o.jpg
Took a look at the depth charts right at Hazeltine creek and there is a deep pocket that goes to about 428 ft. On either side it is 100 ft. It is a remarkable piece of topography probably chiseled out by glaciers previously as the river narrowed. How much of that pocket got filled with slurry? Imagine this stuff entering the water...all the heavier particles would sink right in there.

Just another "landslide"? The slurry doesn't look like normal sand. http://www.vancouverobserver.com/.../i-went-ground-zero...

This is why I think the MoE was nuts to only do water tests through the water column on that first day at just one location, and that was it for all depth tests. They didn't release that info till much later and never commented on why they didn't continue with depth tests especially after the higher readings around 15 meters down of several elements. You would think they would do more tests with results like that instead of just one surface test near Hazeltine the next day.
 

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So now we have an independent commission of inquiry to investigate the cause of the failure headed by the same guy that investigated the Omai Tailings Pond Failure . The results of that inquiry was that although numerous engineering precedents weren't followed in its construction he found no fault and basically put his palms in the air and said %$##% happens. The government was very relieved .
 

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http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/new-information-gives-salmon-expert-pause-on-mine-leak-impact/
Surprise surprise...there is a new drinking water ban. Apparently water on a giant 100 km 1700 ft deep lake doesn't move in a simple way. The contaminated water has created a layer below warm stratified surface water. What a stunner of a surprise for MoE scientists!!!! ??????:eek::eek::wallbash:Those MoE morons couldn't find their way out of a paper bag.

Now in the fall there will be a turnover where the warmest layer of stratified water goes to the bottom of the lake. The contaminated layer could well get pulled down there or at a minimum the surface water will have to go through the contaminated water. Has anyone else mentioned the incredible power of underwater currents created when wind stacks up water at one end of the lake and the force of nature in moving water back to the other side of the lake in narrow spinning underwater columns?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Has anyone else mentioned the incredible power of underwater currents created when wind stacks up water at one end of the lake and the force of nature in moving water back to the other side of the lake in narrow spinning underwater columns?
Yes we discussed this possibility on another thread. More problematic is how long fine suspended copper will stay moving in the boundary currents of the complex thermocline regions. Anyone who fishes deep lakes knows that the fish will always move and cruise feed at the thermoclime. With the coming of the fall rains no doubt more and more fine copper will be flushed down the muckway that was Hazeltine and how this will effect fish is something that needs to be carefully watched.

If there is no action to divert runoff away from the muck slide, including moving all secondary streams away from the watercourse that was Hazeltine then there will be fine copper suspended in the way described in Macleans for a very long time, perhaps centuries. The smoke and mirrors from all the so called "experts" here is the problem. Cut to the chase either isolate the muck or just consider Quesnel Lake as a sewer for Imperial Metals and admit defeat.
 

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let's face it, we are living under absolutely corrupt and compromised political reign. I would also bet it wouldn't matter what party is in place in BC, the cover up to benefit corporate greed will continue.

this democracy we live in is a farce. the powers that be will do as they will and continue to lie steal and cheat the tax payer. corporate north America does not care about the environmental damage being done at the highest levels in BC history. they control the media so most folks will never get the true story, just the don't worry, we know whats best for you government speal.
if anyone thinks that there will be a solution to the polly disaster that is beneficial and returns the environment back to a non polluted state is truly fooling themselves. it's my opinion that it will only get worse from here on in , mining, LNG pipeline/terminals, fracking wells, oil exploration and pipelines and shipping facilities, fish farming, and the doom and gloom goes on.
in a nutshell, while my grandkid (8months) might see fishable lakes and rivers when he's young..... by the time he's 25?
BC will never again be the fishing/hunting mecca of 25 years ago, it's sad and I apologize for my pessimistic rant. :D
 

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It's been clear to me since Gordon Campbell took a conservative payoff to implement the HST that our Provincial gov't are really nothing more than Conservatives in Liberal clothing. Look no further than Ottawa's relaxing/changing of environmental laws and our Provincial leaders silence/acceptance for proof. I'm betting the upcoming raise in ICBC rates is just the tip of the iceberg as the Govt finds ways to come up with the money to clean up the mess. Of course that's after the so called independent report finds there was no fault by Imperial Metals.
 

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It's been clear to me since Gordon Campbell took a conservative payoff to implement the HST that our Provincial gov't are really nothing more than Conservatives in Liberal clothing.
Anyone who thought the "Liberals" were liberals is still living in the Gordon Wilson/Judy Tyabji days. I think the liberals have been pretty clear since then that they are a coalition of the center/right, having ex Liberals, Conservatives and Socreds in the party. The Liberal name was just a banner of convenience, and as with the Socreds before them, the coalition has been pretty effective at keeping the socialists out, which is what most BC voters would prefer given ANY even slightly reasonable alternative. Christy Clarke for sure registers as only slightly reasonable, but that was enough. Not sure what the HST has to do with the spill, but since you mention it, it was poorly introduced and turned into a political disaster, but was absolutely correct from a pure policy perspective.

Now coverups and and reports finding no blame are extremely likely, and are a curse we live with under all governments. The Liberals tend to side with the company and allow it to slide, the NDP with the Labor unions and again allow it to slide. Who knows hat the real impact will be.
 

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Anyone who thought the "Liberals" were liberals is still living in the Gordon Wilson/Judy Tyabji days. I think the liberals have been pretty clear since then that they are a coalition of the center/right, having ex Liberals, Conservatives and Socreds in the party. The Liberal name was just a banner of convenience, and as with the Socreds before them, the coalition has been pretty effective at keeping the socialists out, which is what most BC voters would prefer given ANY even slightly reasonable alternative. Christy Clarke for sure registers as only slightly reasonable, but that was enough. Not sure what the HST has to do with the spill, but since you mention it, it was poorly introduced and turned into a political disaster, but was absolutely correct from a pure policy perspective.

Now coverups and and reports finding no blame are extremely likely, and are a curse we live with under all governments. The Liberals tend to side with the company and allow it to slide, the NDP with the Labor unions and again allow it to slide. Who knows hat the real impact will be.
No connection between HST and the tailings pond spill other than the liberal party. And again, I've supported the Libs my entire life. Never again.
 

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Here's the latest off is castanets news service.

Residents of the small British Columbia community of Likely, downstream of a mine breach, say they don't trust that the provincial government is dealing with the disaster.
More than a month after the failure of the tailings pond at the Mount Polley mine released 17 million cubic metres of water and more than seven million cubic metres of slurry, cottage owner Carla Zanotto says area residents aren't getting any answers.
Zanotto, whose family draws water from Quesnel Lake, says she fears the potentially toxic sludge is not being cleaned up and the province is doing nothing but monitoring the destruction, instead of taking action.
Opponents of the mine held a news conference in Vancouver today to demand a mine moratorium, though there few representatives from the local area involved.
The news conference did attract several oilsands and liquefied natural gas protesters, who released a report of their own containing many unsubstantiated allegations about the spill, the company and the province.
Grand Chief Stewart Phillip, of the Union of BC Indian Chiefs, says both the federal and provincial governments have sold out environmental values to industry.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Here's the latest off is castanets news service.

Residents of the small British Columbia community of Likely, downstream of a mine breach, say they don't trust that the provincial government is dealing with the disaster.
Clint there is a very good reason why BC is very well known for another industry. We certainly know how to screw up the industries that we have. And in doing so cheapen the value of our natural resources. Our smash and grab economy is eventually going to catch up to us and all we will be left with is the alternative industries. There is a very good reason why growing hemp is heavily regulated and I am not talking about the smoking kind. For one it could easily replace the pulp industry that cuts down trees in this province. Also the textile industry that relies upon synthetic fiber from oil by products would become threatened.

There is much about our so called techology that needs to come out of the industrial dark ages. And the short sighted smash and grab mining for minerals is certainly one practice that needs to change. After and during WWII there was a tremendous boom in minerals production and then a compensatory bust that was only relieved by the American spending on Vietnam. Currently minerals are at a high but as developing nations like China and India reach a trade impass and they have ausidiously armed themself into bankruptcy the way the USSR and the USA have done then there will be a huge down turn in mineral markets.

The mineral price down turn at the end of the 1950's led to a recession that was only turned around by Vietnam war spending. The very same thing is going to occur again within the next 5 years and most so called "economists" will not see it coming or have the guts to explain why it happened.

Greed and stupidity caused the dam to break, plain and simple. You can bet that the perpitrators who deliberately ignored all the warnings are going to walk away smelling like flowers in an outhouse after this environmental disaster. Certainly there will be scape goats, like the patsy engineering firm that replaced the original design engineers. But the key individual big shots who ignored the engineering warnings and pushed to overload the tailing pond for 5 years will walk away with a golden hand shake at worst.
 
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