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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just a thought that keeps coming back to me... If I buy only one large pizza for 10 invited guest it just will not do. Well if we local sportsfishermen spend $ on boats gas maintence insurance fishing gear on & on but the majority of us just do not catch enough fish... We should be having great fishing June to November. What can be done to solve the first problem? Just buy 6 large pizzas instead of 1... problem solved. To solve the 2nd problem there seems to be an easy answer. Why doesn't the Fed & Prov Gov kick in $ & build 30 or more hatcheries from Vancouver to Hope??? There are plenty of great rivers streams ...that have high volumes of steady & clean water. It seems to me if we could get these hatcheries in we should have millions & millions of salmon returning every year. Plenty of salmon for natives commercial boats & sportfishermen. Advantages is the fish will not have to travel far to spawn... DFO will only have to patrol 75 miles of river to enforce rules... But if Gov. would build these hatcheries & get millions of salmon returning yearly THEY HAVE TO GET THE NATIVES COMMERCIAL FISH BOATS & us SPORTFISHERMEN[ladies] to agree to follow DFO GUIDELINES PERIOD. It's just no use to get millions & millions of salmon to return & we all over-fish break rules get greedy... as OVER FISHING will kill returns the following years even if 30 extra hatcheries are built. If all parties agree to follow the rules & if rules are broken allow the law breakers to be PUNISHED. Regulated properly all parties [native commercial sports] could have plenty of salmon. Can you imagine going out & coming home with two salmon each on every outing!!! Gov & economy would also benifit as so much gas [taxed] boats motors fishing gear etc...would be sold... not to mention the tourist that would come up to fish locally spending money on charter boats hotels drink & food... Also drift net fishermen should agree to keep their nets closer to shore [as so many fish are going to come through anyways as it is now nets clog the river & when tugs ships pleasure boats come up or down the Fraser R the "big boys" have to keep blowing their horns & pleasure boats are zig zagging to get around nets... If we all try to get along we all could "happy campers" !!!
 

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Dumping Smolts into the ocean does nothing to provide feed for those same Smolts/ensure their survival in fact some studies have shown quite the opposite.

Do some studying on ocean survival and you'll see what I mean, warm water 3 & 4 years ago meant very few Smolts survived thus this year's low returns, this year with colder water temps providing optimum conditions there are more small Salmon than seen in living memory.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
noxcap I wish I knew what causes those lines? I just type a normal message ? small axe Yes water conditions & a many reasons are affecting the salmon population but years & years of over fishing is the main reason of our low numbers[in my opionion]
 

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arimaBOATER said:
noxcap I wish I knew what causes those lines? I just type a normal message ? small axe Yes water conditions & a many reasons are affecting the salmon population but years & years of over fishing is the main reason of our low numbers[in my opionion]
its the [ s ] you are using in your posts, try this instead (S) ;)

:cheers: Rick
 

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Washington state and oregon already tried your idea of building hatcheries on every stream. Aside from the cost of the hatcheries (I would have to imagine 30 could easily cost a $1/2 billion or more plus all the annula operating costs) As mentioned already by small_axe smolt survival when you dump that many in estuaries (which are usually already damaged) goes way down. The Typical pattern for a hatchery is a few years of increased returns followed by crashes in the population - there are a few exceptions - The Stamp/Somass is one. Typically the wild population is also eliminated by the massive overproduction of genetically narrow factory fish. Your line of thinking was prevalent a few decades ago and unfortunately has been one of the factors contributing to the decline of slamon stocks, particularly the already heavily enhanced coho stocks. I belive Dr Carl Walters at UBC has been a critic of the hatchery systems, and has written several articles and books on sustainable fisheries management that may be of interest. Ultimately the problems of the salmon stocks comes down to habitat degradation/elimination combined with overharvesting. Overharvesting is something that is controllable, however getting streams back that have benn culverted, ensuring adequate flow, removing dams, reducing pollution, regrowing trees in overlogged watersheds etc etc are all much more difficult propositions!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Rick Baerg hi Thanks for taking out the lines & telling why it was happening. Putting in more hatcheries it seems is not the solution by the reply posts. Also too much money... well how about five more hatcheries instead of thirty... should help "alittle" maybe possibly hope so... But ya the pollution to our rivers & oceans have to have a big effect. Remember as a kid 45 yrs ago & looking at the Thompson River & literally the water looked like Lake Louise ... just so pure looking!!!! Not now. Hooligans fish were so plentyful in the Fraser R only a short time ago but now are in serious trouble. Guess it is just reality that too many major cities towns & industry are on the Fraser R & it's watershed. Even the Okannagan Lake fish are disappearing because of developement. There were so much Kokanee fish in there once. Their spawning streams are being changed as developement moves in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ironically on tonight's Global 6pm news they had a story of returning salmon in the Seymour R. They said only 5% of the spawn fish will return back after 3-4 yrs. Said that lice will kill them & habitate & over fishing & global warming . Also falling prey to whales & seals. One figure I heard is there were are 100's of 1000's of seals in BC. Even if a seal ate one salmon per month can you imagine how many salmon are being lost to seals. Wasn't there at one time a bounty on seals so to control their population? One example sums it all up when a sports fisherman lost 4 salmon in a row to seals on one single day!!! He was so mad he packed up & left... happened in Bamfield. I read about the story on the net not so long ago. If we can get rid of 80% of the seals & keep their numbers under control my guess that would equal to alot more salmon. We'd be catching them & not the seals!!!
 

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I've been using a 12 shot semi-auto pellet rifle all year. Its co2 pwered by a large paintball cylinder. It only cost $89.00 at a Ladner shop. It works much better than the slingshot. They are smart, once is all it takes and they leave me alone. Not that I had anything to offer them. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Brisco Ya that will do the trick... But honestly & seriously there should be a seal kill off & then an annual control as I would guess they eat alot of the salmon. Orcas I think will eat the seals but they can't eat that many. Maybe that's why Gov. doesn't control them as they want to have enough for the orcas & other type whales to eat.
 

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arimaBOATER said:
If we can get rid of 80% of the seals & keep their numbers under control my guess that would equal to alot more salmon. We'd be catching them & not the seals!!!
That's a pretty naive way of thinking. No offence. The problem isn't seals, the problem is you and me and the other 6 billion screw ups on the planet (sorry to sound bitter HA).
Not that I or anyone else could have foreseen what effect our binge would have on the environment, but we've really messed it up. The thing is, we've finally recognised that we've created a problem; which is great, but the time it takes to turn this train around is so large that our problem is likely to get worse before it gets better...which is kind of scary.

So the best thing you can do as an individual is watch your butt and lead by example. Don't use pesticides and fertilizers (unless organic) in your yard, turn off a light, walk to the movie store, take that extra second to set aside recyclables...VOTE.

Kind of a hypocritical rant...although I am trying to change my wasteful ways, I'm afraid that it will be the next generation that will be picking up most of the slack.

:2cents:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
bronjuan I hear ya as I totally argree pollution a very big big factor... If we knew the chemicals we flush into our rivers!!! What also is sickening is people dumping pollution into the drainage systems. In parking lots janitors I know I seen it dumping janitor buckets full of stripped wax & sealer off floors...they were too lazy stupid or non caring...as they should of dumped it into the toilet. But nevertheless I still believe OVER FISHING with drift nets in the Fraser is the BIGGIST REASON for low salmon returns... Ya just can't have tons of nets out day after day for months...on the Fraser. One or two days max. per wk should only be allowed. Sportsfishermen with their poles do 5 % max of the catch so they aren't OVER FISHING. There's too many nets on too many days on the Fraser R so no way we're going to have large numbers returning year after year... That's why the west coast of Vancouver Island has fish less pollution YES but not tons of nets on the rivers either.
 

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I agree netting on the Fraser probably hits the pop's hard BUT out on the ocean where it's happening...those rigs are so efficient that they just strip the sea of fish...

The sad thing is, canned fish is dirt cheap...probably what fuels this. Raise prices and cut numbers...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
bronjuan Yes those rigs are catching alot of fish out in the ocean... Seen something on tv where these big ships from various countries lay out like 10 or 20 miles of drift nets & put some kind of homing device on it...then they go to another location put out another net etc... then after a time go & haul in the catch... salmon porpoises birds etc... can ya imagine that... happening in the Pacific Ocean. Too many ships doing it Greenpeace boats would never catch them...way out in the middle of the ocean.
 

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There are many problems surrounding our fishery but I truly believe that fish farms are the main reason for the decline in our stocks. Just look at scotland and some of those scandinavian countries whose fish stocks crashed because of it, Years of confirming studies and the gov't still allows this sort of thing to go on.

What I can't believe is that the general public in BC know this and there has been no drastic measures taken completely shut these fish killers down immediately. Scientists are now saying within ten years pacific wild salmon will BE gone completely from sea lice infestation.

THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM AND IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THEM SHUT DOWN THEN I BELIEVE OUR STOCKS WIIL LEVEL OFF AND RECOVER NICELY.


HOTROD
 

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hotrod said:
There are many problems surrounding our fishery ...but I truly believe that fish farms are the main reason for the decline in our stocks.

...THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM AND IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THEM SHUT DOWN THEN I BELIEVE OUR STOCKS WIIL LEVEL OFF AND RECOVER NICELY.


HOTROD

Interesting you should point that out Hotrod, that's a very, very good point and close to the hearts of all sportfishermen these days...recently Little Hawk presented some options to help support Alexandra Morton in her legal action against the fish farms...Here's the link:

http://www.bcfishingreports.com/forum/index.php/topic,9094.0.html

It's a very important cause and well worth a read by everyone...but the question I have for you Hotrod, and everyone else for that matter, is what are we personally willing to do to help preserve our salmon and, more specifically, our steelhead...? From our personal and albeit seemingly one sided discussions via pm it is hard to discern if you are willing to do anything at all...that's not to say you don't care, but how much do all of us care and what are we willing to give of ourselves to change things...?

Regardless of what your true feelings are, the link above is one way to help with the issue you've addressed above. Hopefully you will take the time to check it out...

Now as for the original posters subject, he discusses options and problem sources other than the fish farms...namely, more hatcheries, regulating all parties involved with fish harvesting along the coast, including First nations and commercial fleets...He also refers to those breaking the rules...agreeing or disagreeing with DFO guidelines, etc, etc...

I know many here would be particularly interested to hear everyones opinions on these matters, yours would be appreciated as well, particularly with how they apply to you and incidences over the last year...

Thanks for bringing this up Arima, Hotrod, and others...great topic...!

:cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
hotrod I heard about the sea lice problem but don't know alot on the subject but after reading what you posted I am going to do a study onthe subject. If it is a BIG REASON why the stocks are down & it is backed by facts then yes you are right they should be shut down now. Also I posted before in the past but THE PROVINCE NEWSPAPER
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
CONTINUED : Somehow posted before I hit post button........... yes THE PROVINCE newspaper had a front page story written by EXPERTS IN THE FIELD OF HEALTH & they recommended to only eat one farm salmon per month as eating more would not be healthy for one's body !!!! ribwart "thanks for your comments"
 
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