[cohoclubber]

I am new to this forum and freshly returned to BC from a 12 Year exile in Alberta. We would travel back to the vedder each year in October to chase fish around and try to drown ourselves getting over log jams without losing what we were sure was a record chinook :lol: . Saw lots of people flossing over the years and lots of others drifting roe bags with lots of lead on. I was pretty interested in the jigging idea as an alternative to streamer fishing runs with a flyrod, but it seems to me that given the weight on the jig, the angle of rod to line and the retrieve process it really is not much different than flossing. You are putting your jig on the bottom of the river across the pool were you think or know the fish to be and then swinging your line and jig through the pool essentially. Granted you are using a jigging motion to retrieve but really its swinging down stream as it goes. Im not judging just questioning because i really like fishing the vedder but it seems most of the techniques are the same just presenting a slightly different product. If you find this inflamatory please dont reply I could care less about the argument but would appreciate the discussion. Thanks

 

[GOFISH]

I have used jigs many times while float fishing for Steelhead ........... although I've never used them for Salmon and cannot respond regarding that query ..... I can certainly state that the way the maribou jig was hammered by the Steely it was not a flossing hookup.

GOFISH 8)

 

[Crazy Drifter]

Careful CC It's a hot topic on this forum. Basically its like the name says. Your flossing your line through the fishes mouth. When you hear people say color selection when flosing, it really does'nt matter color all the yarn does is act as a stabilizer and add resistance to the hook in the water. Now if you come to the Vedder during the fall and fish the Bailey or Train bridge now that's jigging disguised as flossing. :evil: :evil: Watch different guys fish if you can, the jiggers are the ones using 6/0 hooks with a strand of yarn for attractant of course and setting the hook like the fishes mouth is made of steel. The flossers are the ones that are using tiny corkies, yarn, smaller hooks and can feel what their set up is doing in the water and will set their hooks when then fish is there. Personally I would like to see it go back to the old days where it was all classified as snagging just my two cents :roll:
Crazy D

 

[fishortho]

If the fisheries people had any balls and had some legislation and penalties that could be quickly enforced, as well as a number of "deputy" fisheries associates, much like some of the regional/local police at their disposal, anyone found intentionally snagging/flossing fish should lose all their gear, and be fined!. Of course, most of the laws will never stand up in court so we have and annual snagfest in the Vedder......I guess now is should be referred to as a seasonal snagfest, as the steelhead on the lower vedder found out last year, they, too, are not immune to this stupidity. As long as there are no fines, no tickets, no gear getting confiscated, expect to see more and more of this activity on the rivers....
Now that I have that off my chest, to answer your question, I have seen jigs used effectively in a legal manner.. THey do catch fish . I have also seen people that know better intentionally snagging chum salmon in the Harrison River with jigs by fishing them under a float and jigging them along the current...When there are lots of fish, and you have lots of experience, it is very simple way to be successful, and a very poor example to those learning how to fish....
On the plus side, I am going to learn more about how to use them in a legal manner and see if they work as well as some of the reports I have read. Basically I look at them as a Maibou flash fly with a lead head to keep it down in the zone.......Ortho

 

[abbyfireguy]

I use lead head jigs with either maribou or rubber worms on the Harrison for pinks and chum.....Springs will attack the jigs under the right situation,but,big springs are hard on the jig hooks as most are rather weak in the design...
Watching pinks and chum attack the jigs under the boat in clear water is a thing to see...I wish I had an under water camera as the pink glitter maribou jig really ticked off the pinks last year and they attacked it aggressively...
Drifting jigs under a float the way I do it on the Harrison has the line hanging almost straight down which makes flossing or snagging non existant esspecially with an 18 inch leader...
As far as DFO or regulating bodies having balls to enact or enforce regulations,its sad but, they were neutered years ago, if a few get some jewels they are quickly sent to the spay/neuter clinic for a quick fix.... :?

 

[fishon]

I do not agree at all that jigging is the same as flossing. Most guys flossing in the Vedder/Fraser are using huge leaders and a rather large pencil lead. Any sense of presure on the line and they are setting the hook! Jigging is just another way of attracting the fish. I have seen fish take the jig in large, clear pools. There was certainly no act of flossing. I also agree with someones article on here a while ago that until DFO has regulations in place against flossing, what the hell are we to do? However, the have a serious lack of funding already and adding patrol for flossing is likely not going to happen any time soon. We all hate DFO, but the have a tough job, they can not just come out with new rules and regulations all the time. It takes a lot more to pass them than people think. Also one more thing (Seeing I am totally off subject now) they need the courts on there side to enforce illegal sporty's and native fisherman, why arrest, why fine? If the courts wont uphold the the charge or violation? I am an environmental student so I am a bit more PRO-DFO than some guys on this site, but I have also been on the inside already and seen what they face. DFO is fine! It's the people in the government and courts and not that do not let these people do the job they are hired for. Oh yeah back to the real story......jigging is not flossing.

 

[fishortho]

Agreed!. I have no issues with the DFO people.Poor saps, they do the best they can, but of course, they are never in the right place at the right time. I just think they could use around 500 volunteers that take one day a year out of the schedule and help them do their job...The courts are a joke. We see this every day here in Vancouver. Don't like someone? Shoot 'em.....Case dismissed! for any of 5000 reasons.......No justice breeds more crime...........Ortho

 

[fishon]

I dont really know what you are saying by posting that? Is it the part about "respecting the other person fishing methods"? How about respecting the fish and using a conservation minded method! What exactly is your argument? What should we be "getting over"? I think my topics were pretty valid. Id love to hear your reply sir.

 

[Crazy Drifter]

Hey CC Sorry to get the posting off topic I confused jigging with snagging (the old triple with a spark plug) I also am going to try those pink maribou jigs this year. Looks like it kicked off thwe first heated debate in a while. Hope the fish show up soon I'm sensing alot of stored up testosterone. Hey hoochie dont be suprised to se the vedder become a classified river in the next few years, that should slow down the gong show
Crazy D

 

[GOFISH]

Hootchie ..... if you take that in the context it was meant ....... it surely doesn't say that methods of snagging fish in any river is acceptable. As you state ..... it is in the Fishing Synopsis ...... for you reference here is the definition of "FISHING" from Miriam Webster's online dictionary:

Function: verb
intransitive verb
1 : to attempt to catch fish
2 : to seek something by roundabout means <fishing for a compliment>
3 a : to search for something underwater <fish for pearls> b : to engage in a search by groping or feeling <fishing around in her purse for her keys>
transitive verb
1 a : to try to catch fish in b : to fish with : use (as a boat, net, or bait) in fishing
2 a : to go fishing for <fish salmon> b : to pull or draw as if fishing <fished the ball from under the car> <fish wires through a conduit>
- fish·abil·i·ty /"fi-sh&-'bi-l&-tE/ noun
- fish·able /'fi-sh&-b&l/ adjective
- fish or cut bait : to make a choice between alternatives

Now take note that the operational words here associated with fishing is "CATCH FISH". It does not state "SNAG FISH" or "FLOSS FISH".

Therefore your reference to Page 15 of the "Fishing Synopsis" should be taken into the context that all persons who are FISHING to "CATCH FISH" are deserving of respect no matter what method they use. Unfortunately for you ........ you are not included in this as you choose an alternative method (snagging and/or flossing) ...... one that takes no skill ....... and is detrimental to the sports fisherman as a whole.

Sorry folks ..... now back to the subject.

Fishortho stated:

Basically I look at them as a Maibou flash fly with a lead head to keep it down in the zone.......

Yes that would be a close comparison ....... when I have fished maribou jigs for Steelhead short floating them with only an 18 - 24" leader. The current action on the maribou jig drives Steelhead nuts as it makes a most impressive presentation.

Abbyfireguy stated:

big springs are hard on the jig hooks as most are rather weak in the design...

Yes they certainly are and you really have to "play" the fish as they won't hold up should you try to "horse" them in.

I think we are all pretty hard on DFO ........ let's face it ..... they have a thankless job ...... they are bad mouthed if they do ..... and bad mouthed if they don't. As stated they have no support from the legal or political system. (Not sure how politics should be involved in this anyhow except that they make the laws.).

Bottom line ...... don't hold you breaths for things to change ...... doesn't seem to matter what government we have.


GOFISH 8)

 

[fishortho]

You know, 'Drifter....that is not a bad idea at all!...but somehow I think if the river were flyfishing only....there would be a lot of fly flossers out there anyway. I think and annual fee of say $100.00 would be in order (that's about how much the fish cost when you fish for them with approved methods) Gas, motel, meals, gear.....blah blah.....Ortho 8)

 

[Crazy Drifter]

Well Ortho I agree with you, though the river would be a lot less crowded dont you think. :wink: drool drool oh those open runs.

 

[Britguy]

Sounds like some of you want to make it fishing for the wealthy only :?
$100.00 might not be much to some of you but a lot to others
I could not afford to fish for Salmon in a river near where i lived in Scotland as
it was 200.00 pouds a day
roughly $450.00
and mostly reserved for American visitors
fishing is pretty expensive as it is
we dont need to increase things
if you made it fly fishing only then that would not be fair to those who dont fly fish
i dont have an answer to the issue
but we can all try to give a possitive input on a solution
just my input
happy fishing guys 8)

 

[fishortho]

Ah Britguy..........can you see the bulge in my cheek from my tongue? :wink: My reference was the fact that if you log very carefully ALL your costs to land a steelhead, coho, spring, or any fish in any system ,the costs are really high.
If Schlock is reading this and a few other newbie fishers, they have already found out that it is REALLY expensive :shock: to get all the gear for all the various fishing opportunities that are presented to us in the lower mainland.
That is why I would rather spend $200.00 and have a full day on the water sturgeon fishing with a guide, because it cuts the costs down HUGE!! on't need to buy a heavy rod, don't need a boat, don't need top look for fish or experiment with bait....Just show up and fish! :lol:
Now, I still think it would not be a bad idea to classify the Chilliwack River but as long as the hatchery is producing good numbers and getting good returns.....everyone wins with the fishery. No hatchery, fewer fish, more regs and catch and release................Hmmmmmm
Good Idea! Tight Lines......Ortho 8)

 

[fishon]

That's for sure Ortho, the hatchery does a VERY good job at producing coho! The numbers are unreal!

 

[fishortho]

Well, there are a lot of people who fish the Vedder/Chilli on a regular basis and last year cetainly was not a stellar year for coho.The overalll numbers were way down at the hatchery and this problem is presently being addressed. Other species like the Chum & the Pink runs were above average and this trend might continue until they find out why the little 'hos are not returning in larger numbers considering how many were released into the system......Ortho 8)

 

[hoochie]

what am i saying?

I am refering to the lack of any specific mention to methods deamed acceptable on the river. There is nothing to state anything regarding the method of float fishing VS bottom bouncing. They are both drift fishing.
People who fish the Vedder have taken this "holier than thou" attitude that makes them think they are the only people entitled to fish the system.
Single barbless hook... The regular crowd at the Vedder has placed their own enterpretation on methods acceptable to catch fish in the Vedder.
I really dont understand what there point is. why handicap yourself? Fish one method, if it doesnt work try something else. But apparently this is not what you guys have in mind.

If any of you would take the time to go underwater and watch a hook travelling by, you would see that there is little difference between using a float and not using one. The hook still sinks and flosses fish.

A point to take in to consideration:
look at how the hook is located in the fishes mouth when you catch it. You will find more often than not that the hook is placed sideways in its mouth. This is an indication of a floss, and can be seen quite often using a float.
You may notice a difference catching Coho, because they love to bite.. the hook is quite often centered in the mouth, either 12 or 6 o'clock.This is often the case with trout too.. they attack the hook. I have never cought a trout or a coho with a sideways hook.
Think of what that means.. the placement of the hook. Tell me any species of anything that bites with its cheek.

If the regs state one fish per day.. why bitch about guys catching their fish when they use a different method than you.
Are you going to insist on a specific dress code soon too? or perhaps locals only? memberships?
Its like you guys are saying that the only way to hunt ethically is to use a bow, and bitch at all the guys using rifles...

I guess if thats all you have to talk about, and it gives you a sense of companionship, have at er.. and dont worry, I dont fish the Vedder anymore... so ya, you did your job. Good work.

 

[dinsdale piranha]

Jigs vs Jigging, Jigging vs Flossing

As I see it, Jigs are those heavy marabou "flies". They are fished to attract fish. Jigging is a method of "fishing" where the "angler" jerks back on the rod periodically with the hope of impaling a fish. In the old days, it was with a horking big treble hook and a pound of lead right above it. Of course there was the gratuitous piece of red yarn to "attract" the fish. I'm going to get in a lot of sh*t for this, but we used to affectionately refer to this terminal gear as an "indian spinner". First nations food fishers would often legally (and ethically) snag fish with this sort of gear. Last year, I witnessed a large number of non-native anglers using this technique at the mouth of the Seymour during the pink run.

Flossing on the other hand, generally speaking, fairly hooks fish in the mouth. I am willing to accept this as a legitimate method. I cannot say, without a shadow of doubt, that the fish "take" for any other reason than they do fly fishing, or drift fishing.

Angling tries to get a fish to put something in its mouth FOR WHATEVER REASON. The difference between jigging and angling is that with angling the FISH chooses to put the bait in its mouth. With jigging the fish is blind-sided, sucker-punched, never intending to "eat" the bait.

Dinsdale.

 

[abbyfireguy]

Anyone who has to resort to flossing with long leaders on the Vedder has little fishing ability or doesn't care to use what fishing skill they have..The Vedder under most conditions is very clear water compared to the Fraser and the fish respond very well to color,shine and scent.The presentation matters in clear water unlike muddy water where you can't see you hand 2 inches in front of your face underwater....
To floss in the Vedder with long leaders only shows ones inability or laziness...
Just my humble opinion, don't crucify me, I'm only stating the obvious..If it rubs some people the wrong way,maybe tag along with someone willing to show you how easy it is to present tackle that fish will bite and chase on the Vedder/Chilliwack system....

 

[dinsdale piranha]

Anyone who has to resort to flossing with long leaders on the Vedder has little fishing ability or doesn't care to use what fishing skill they have...

AFG, nothing personal, but I'll play the devil's advocate here:

Fly fishing (often refered to as a "higher" form of angling) regularly employs long (9'+) leaders. Does this reduce fly fishing to little more than hauty-tauty flossing?

Dinsdale.