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Discussion Starter #1
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=161980&ID=all

To be expected and sensible. I am surprised that they have not closed the whole thing including the Horsefly and Quesnel Lake itself.:mad::(
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Due to the breach in a mine tailings dam near Likely, BC, effective immediately
there is no fishing for salmon in the following waters:

-Cariboo River from the confluence of the Quesnel River to the confluence of
Seller Creek; and

-Quesnel River downstream of Poquette Creek.

VO# 2014-355

Notes:

Barbless hooks are required when fishing for salmon in tidal and non-tidal
waters of British Columbia.

Sport anglers are encouraged to participate in the Salmon Sport Head Recovery
program by labelling and submitting heads from adipose fin-clipped chinook and
coho salmon. Recovery of coded-wire tags provides critical information for
coast-wide stock assessment. Contact the Salmon Sport Head Recovery Program
toll free at (866) 483-9994 for further information.

Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336.

For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at
1-(866) 431-FISH (3474).


FOR MORE INFORMATION:

Linda Stevens, DFO Williams Lake Tel: (250) 305-4004


Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0753
Sent August 5, 2014 at 1618
 

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Uggg this makes me sooooooooooooooo mad, natives warned the company that this would happen 5 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!! hopefully this doesnt wreck quesnel lake fishing forever..............
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
It is bad for migrating fish because of the location

Uggg this makes me sooooooooooooooo mad, natives warned the company that this would happen 5 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!! hopefully this doesnt wreck quesnel lake fishing forever..............
bettershot.jpg
The sediment is moving towards Likely and the outlet and will not effect the deep lake sections further up the lake. The lake naturally and otherwise is sediment heavy towards the outlet at Likely. Historically there was hydro mining done all along the lake as early as the 1860s so the presence of heavy sediments in the deep parts of the lake are both human caused and a natural occurrence. There will be a major habitat change the extent of which we need to closely monitor and that is the point, our current government is not up to the task and has gutted the resources to do the work.

Mr Lake it is serious but should not kill off the entire Lake and this is the exact reason why there needs to be a retention closure on the whole system now PERIOD. We do not know all the movements of the fish in Quesnel Lake, especially the char and other species. It is a deep lake and there might even be species of fish down deep that will surprise us. This spill might well kill off a Nessie or giant unknown lake sturgeon for all we know. There are sonar images taken in the 1960s of huge fish in some of the deep lakes in BC, what species they are we have no clue.

If the province had a backbone and leaders with vision then the funding for more extensive monitoring and things like deep water exploration of the habitat of Quesnel Lake and other incredible habitats could happen. But we are a spineless bunch of cheapskates who just want to smash and grab our resources and unfortunately these individuals, who could care less about the environment, currently hold all the political power.
 

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Thanks Reeman for reminding us that not long ago the creeks and rivers were destroyed by the hydraulic methods of mining. Although this spill is significant by todays standards, in the early years it was probably a daily occurrence. Now if we can just get to the next level and truly protect the environment in all resource extraction industries, we may have something to pass on to future generations. We need to elect the right people and obviously, we have not done that, with a very few exceptions.
 

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Yeah i guess it makes sense about where the water is going, and of course this happens on the year we might have the biggest salmon run ever...... And reeman where did u find out about those sonar images? Its also funny cause we dont know of any trout that can go down to 2000ft but char go down deep i can just imagine the size of char in quesnel that have been hiding.
 

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I am surprised that they have not closed the whole thing including the Horsefly and Quesnel Lake itself.:mad::(
The province will likely do the same Reeman if this is as dire as it looks. You know full well salmon and DFO are a federal entity while the trophy rainbow fishery is a provincial one. They have always worked separately and often at different speeds, so it should be no surprise that non salmon decisions haven't been made yet, especially since those decisions will rely heavily on how the salmon are impacted, and that has yet to be determined with any certainty. The peak of the run doesn't historically move through that area till late august/early sept...

As such we should all also expect the province will delay because they have some time to do so before they have to make a concrete decision. They will most certainly want more info before they react by closing down the local fisheries. That's like shutting down the majority of the local economic input. A large portion of the communities of Horsefly and Likely depend on influx of dollars from the trophy fisheries in the lake and in those rivers, so the provincial bodies will not react until the preliminary assessments are done.

Add to this the very real possibility that the horsefly could close anyways based on the 18 degree water temp management strategy, and they are going to be very careful about shutting it down early in a knee jerk reaction, even if it does seem prudent to us to do so sooner rather than later.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The province will likely do the same Reeman if this is as dire as it looks. You know full well salmon and DFO are a federal entity while the trophy rainbow fishery is a provincial one. They have always worked separately and often at different speeds, so it should be no surprise that non salmon decisions haven't been made yet, especially since those decisions will rely heavily on how the salmon are impacted, and that has yet to be determined with any certainty. The peak of the run doesn't historically move through that area till late august/early sept...

As such we should all also expect the province will delay because they have some time to do so before they have to make a concrete decision. They will most certainly want more info before they react by closing down the local fisheries. That's like shutting down the majority of the local economic input. A large portion of the communities of Horsefly and Likely depend on influx of dollars from the trophy fisheries in the lake and in those rivers, so the provincial bodies will not react until the preliminary assessments are done.

Add to this the very real possibility that the horsefly could close anyways based on the 18 degree water temp management strategy, and they are going to be very careful about shutting it down early in a knee jerk reaction, even if it does seem prudent to us to do so sooner rather than later.
I was not saying close the fishing, just put a temp catch and release on the whole system until the facts of what is going on can be ascertained accurately. The worst reaction possible is to keep good responsible private individuals with eyes and brains off these waters. I only wish I had the cash to do a trip up there right now, stay at the lodge in Likely and fish the whole area along with my camera! Guess I should buy a lottery ticket.
 

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I was not saying close the fishing, just put a temp catch and release on the whole system until the facts of what is going on can be ascertained accurately. The worst reaction possible is to keep good responsible private individuals with eyes and brains off these waters. I only wish I had the cash to do a trip up there right now, stay at the lodge in Likely and fish the whole area along with my camera! Guess I should buy a lottery ticket.
Hmmmm....well, you are in luck as it is mostly catch and release already even before this incident. The horsefly is entirely C&R and the main lake is none over 50cm so that protects the older, spawning age class.

I for one would be all for a full closure if there is any indication that the toxicity of the spill cannot be adequately mitigated. It would be sad yes, but it would reduce any undue stress during an already stressful time.

Here's hoping the impacts are minimal. :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yeah i guess it makes sense about where the water is going, and of course this happens on the year we might have the biggest salmon run ever...... And reeman where did u find out about those sonar images? Its also funny cause we dont know of any trout that can go down to 2000ft but char go down deep i can just imagine the size of char in quesnel that have been hiding.
It was on Takla Lake and it was done in the late 1960's. The images were suspected to be a few ancient lake sturgeon. BTW the actual depth of the deepest parts of Quesnel Lake are not a certain fact, there very well might be holes that go down even deeper because of the nature of the structure of the lake. All we can hope is that because the sediment is moving slow the heavy minerals will drop down quickly. If we get heavy rain and wind the sediments could easily make it into the Fraser proper. There will be process mining sludge with heavy metals coming down what was Hazeltine Creek for years and this needs to be addressed immediately by diverting rain and runoff away from the creek as quickly as humanly possible. It is going to be expensive to mitigate and will cause problems for years to come.
 

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Yea it is all soo sad, and i heard about massive sturgeon being in takla lake from the resort owner by email.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hmmmm....well, you are in luck as it is mostly catch and release already even before this incident. The horsefly is entirely C&R and the main lake is none over 50cm so that protects the older, spawning age class.
That only applies to rainbows, lake char (trout) has a no fish under 30 with no upper limit on size, so it is still a trophy kill fishery for lakers.
Directly from the current regs;

"Trout/char daily quota = 2 (none under 30 cm): only 1 lake trout, release all rainbow trout over 50 cm and release all bull trout"

I for one would be all for a full closure if there is any indication that the toxicity of the spill cannot be adequately mitigated. It would be sad yes, but it would reduce any undue stress during an already stressful time.

Here's hoping the impacts are minimal. :cheers:
Ditto:cheers:
 

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That only applies to rainbows, lake char (trout) has a no fish under 30 with no upper limit on size, so it is still a trophy kill fishery for lakers.
Directly from the current regs;

"Trout/char daily quota = 2 (none under 30 cm): only 1 lake trout, release all rainbow trout over 50 cm and release all bull trout"
Yes, I am aware of that, this is why I said mostly catch and release...the major producers and prime supporters of this world reknowned fishery and the local economy are still the rainbow and bull trout fisheries, so at the very least, the catch and release regulations are in place to try to protect those critical species. Add to that the temp dependent regs during in river fisheries and it would seem the regulations protecting the area are pretty good with respect to the primary and perhaps most vulnerable targets.

Other species like the kokanee and lake trout in the system are perhaps protected to some degree by the reduced frequency and pressure with which they are targetted, as well as their habitat and behavior. Regardless, I would certainly consider the killing of trophy fish, here in BC a poorly thought out practice from the sportfishers perspective, and one of the ideas that continues to gain support in BC from many sportfishers is, (if a fish for the table is desired), the practice of only killing the average and more numerous age/size classes in a lake, this can help generate more exciting and productive sport fisheries with larger sized fish and trophy opportunities.

This appears to be the route the province and the local communities have taken in the quesnel system with their sportfish, and although the omission of similar regs for large lake trout is regrettable, it could be for any number of reasons we have not considered here.

Given the already extensive efforts to protect and preserve the established trophy rainbow fishery, one might surmise in some small part the lack of regs to protect trophy sized lakers could be an additional way to protect that unique rainbow population from further predation by larger older age class fish that a trophy lake trout fishery would consist of. That's one possibility anyways.

Hopefully in the next day or so we will get some good news regarding the water quality and be one step closer to knowing exactly how bad the damage may be.
 

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Excellent posts Rib, thanks.
I know this area well and hope the water analyses coming this afternoon are better than expected ..
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Other species like the kokanee and lake trout in the system are perhaps protected to some degree by the reduced frequency and pressure with which they are targetted, as well as their habitat and behavior. Regardless, I would certainly consider the killing of trophy fish, here in BC a poorly thought out practice from the sportfishers perspective, and one of the ideas that continues to gain support in BC from many sportfishers is, (if a fish for the table is desired), the practice of only killing the average and more numerous age/size classes in a lake, this can help generate more exciting and productive sport fisheries with larger sized fish and trophy opportunities.

This appears to be the route the province and the local communities have taken in the quesnel system with their sportfish, and although the omission of similar regs for large lake trout is regrettable, it could be for any number of reasons we have not considered here.

Given the already extensive efforts to protect and preserve the established trophy rainbow fishery, one might surmise in some small part the lack of regs to protect trophy sized lakers could be an additional way to protect that unique rainbow population from further predation by larger older age class fish that a trophy lake trout fishery would consist of. That's one possibility anyways.

Hopefully in the next day or so we will get some good news regarding the water quality and be one step closer to knowing exactly how bad the damage may be.
Yes the policy of allowing a trophy hunt for large piscivorous Salvelinus namaycush is very questionable on many BC lakes. Perhaps some avid anglers here on this forum might be able to help the BC government in this hunt.

If you catch and bonk a lunker lake trout please consider recording the stomach contents to see what the lunker is predating upon. If you find large quantities of O. nerka don't be alarmed the O. mykiss which out number the Salvelinus namaycush by substantial number predate upon Sockeye and Kokanee to a much greater degree than the few large lunkers in BC lakes.

HOWEVER if you find large numbers of Ptychocheilus oregonensis and other course fish in your trophy then please post the results!

It is no accident that the numbers of Ptychocheilus oregonensis and other course fish are suddenly exploding in places where lunker Salvelinus namaycush and
Salvelinus confluentus have been decimated by trophy fishing and habitat loss.
 

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Yes the policy of allowing a trophy hunt for large piscivorous Salvelinus namaycush is very questionable on many BC lakes. Perhaps some avid anglers here on this forum might be able to help the BC government in this hunt.

If you catch and bonk a lunker lake trout please consider recording the stomach contents to see what the lunker is predating upon. If you find large quantities of O. nerka don't be alarmed the O. mykiss which out number the Salvelinus namaycush by substantial number predate upon Sockeye and Kokanee to a much greater degree than the few large lunkers in BC lakes.

HOWEVER if you find large numbers of Ptychocheilus oregonensis and other course fish in your trophy then please post the results!

It is no accident that the numbers of Ptychocheilus oregonensis and other course fish are suddenly exploding in places where lunker Salvelinus namaycush and
Salvelinus confluentus have been decimated by trophy fishing and habitat loss.
What? Speak English please...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
To clarify.

What? Speak English please...
Gladly
................

Yes the policy of allowing a trophy hunt for large piscivorous (predators that eat fish) Salvelinus namaycush (Lake Trout) is very questionable on many BC lakes. Perhaps some avid anglers here on this forum might be able to help the BC government in this hunt.

If you catch and bonk a lunker lake trout please consider recording the stomach contents to see what the lunker is predating upon. If you find large quantities of O. nerka (Sockeye and their non anadromous sub species Kokanee) don't be alarmed the O. mykiss (Raindows) which out number the Salvelinus namaycush (Lake Trout) by substantial number(s) predate upon Sockeye and Kokanee to a much greater degree than the few large lunker (Lake Trout) that are left in BC lakes.

HOWEVER if you find large numbers of Ptychocheilus oregonensis (Northern Pikeminnow) and other course fish in your trophy then please post the results!

( I would like to see pictures so I can tie up some good streamer flies for char fishing on Quesnel Lake and other places and the documentation of the predation habits might spur on some real study of the species as the age and habits of large char in BC is very poorly understood!)

It is no accident that the numbers of Ptychocheilus oregonensis and other course fish are suddenly exploding in places where lunker Salvelinus namaycush and Salvelinus confluentus (Bull Trout) have been decimated by trophy fishing and habitat loss.

The loss of a substantial portion of prime habitat for the rearing of trophy Lake Trout in Quesnel Lake is a very sad possibility as they spawn in rocky crags in lakes and these features will also be filled in with sediments. Smaller Lake Trout go very deep to avoid predation by cannibalistic large members of their own and other species. Very large Bull Trout also predate upon fry as do large Fraser strain O. mykiss (rainbows)

The food web of Quesnel Lake is very complex and taking large predators out of the equation is as sensible as shooting all the Lions in Africa.
 

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View attachment 17082
The sediment is moving towards Likely and the outlet and will not effect the deep lake sections further up the lake. The lake naturally and otherwise is sediment heavy towards the outlet at Likely. Historically there was hydro mining done all along the lake as early as the 1860s so the presence of heavy sediments in the deep parts of the lake are both human caused and a natural occurrence. There will be a major habitat change the extent of which we need to closely monitor and that is the point, our current government is not up to the task and has gutted the resources to do the work.
Well not exactly. First you have all the toxic sludge on the ground extending 100 meters beyond the original bank of the creek. Currently it is raining in Likely. You will have new contamination. Secondly, Polly lake also got a good bit of toxic slurry dumped into it by the blowout. This sediment has blocked the outlet of Polley lake and no one will unblock it because they would have to work on top of toxic sludge. At some point Polley will also breech.

Secondly, wind currents can push surface water great distances and if the wind comes from the right direction it could blow water 50 km unimpeded up the lake, the hills help channel wind. I saw this myself a week ago where current was visible along the edges of cliffs when the wind blew in the same direction. If the wind is strong enough, a great deal of water can get stacked at one end of the lake and counter currents underneath the surface can form. If you see lines of parallel foam on the water this is indication that Langmuir currents have formed. There is a great deal of churning of the water when this occurs. I doubt anyone will reasonably be able to state where the line of contamination stops and toxins could be eventually evenly mixed in the whole lake. How much of the contaminants will get sucked downstream before mixing with the rest of the lake occurs is anyone's guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well not exactly. First you have all the toxic sludge on the ground extending 100 meters beyond the original bank of the creek. Currently it is raining in Likely. You will have new contamination. Secondly, Polly lake also got a good bit of toxic slurry dumped into it by the blowout. This sediment has blocked the outlet of Polley lake and no one will unblock it because they would have to work on top of toxic sludge. At some point Polley will also breech.

Secondly, wind currents can push surface water great distances and if the wind comes from the right direction it could blow water 50 km unimpeded up the lake, the hills help channel wind. I saw this myself a week ago where current was visible along the edges of cliffs when the wind blew in the same direction. If the wind is strong enough, a great deal of water can get stacked at one end of the lake and counter currents underneath the surface can form. If you see lines of parallel foam on the water this is indication that Langmuir currents have formed. There is a great deal of churning of the water when this occurs. I doubt anyone will reasonably be able to state where the line of contamination stops and toxins could be eventually evenly mixed in the whole lake. How much of the contaminants will get sucked downstream before mixing with the rest of the lake occurs is anyone's guess.
Thank you;
All the more reason to monitor and study how deep arm of the lake and the whole ecosystem is effected.
Good analysis and from the wind channel effects that Quesnel Lake is famous for you are absolutely correct the sediment will not just move towards the outlet all the time!
I have seen currents change because of wind direction on many occasions while trying to fish bigger lakes with my 'toon boat. On Heffley this year I had to take that effect into account on several occasions so I could get back to the launch without having my arms burn from the work. But I experienced some very interesting fishing because of the work I put in exploring that pond.
 

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I did write the emergency response team about this issue and they will put another testing location about 5 km up the lake but they should have one near Elysia resort. That would tell people any contamination did move up lake that far and it might reassure the many people who fish in that area.

Would you know about any natural currents? Is the creek mouth close enough to the river so their is a current?
 
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