[abbyfireguy]

Here is part of the press release from DFO yesterday......The DFO is out and watching,,,had a good chat to 4 of them who swooped down on us the other day........

Recreational

Recreational fisheries for Fraser River sockeye in South Coast marine waters
and tidal portion of the Fraser are non-retention and there is no fishing for
sockeye in non-tidal waters of the Fraser River.

In the non-tidal waters of the Fraser River, the best information available to
the Department is that although there is no fishing for sockeye restriction in
place, that there is considerable interaction with sockeye salmon in the
recreational fishery in these areas, particularly above the Aggasiz/Rosedale
Bridge.

The Department is meeting with the Sport Fish Advisory Committee for the Upper
Fraser Valley on Monday August 13th to discuss options to reduce interaction
with sockeye.

Anglers fishing for Chinook salmon are again asked to take every measure
possible to ensure that their fishing activities are not impacting sockeye
salmon.



Spaghetti Bar area was a joke,,,,,fifteen boats anchored ,all casting this past Wednesday..........
Don't be surprised with what comes down the pipe on Monday after they review the weekend survellance reports.... :wallbash:

 

[Rib]

My hope is that for the guides that try to make a living out there that the entire river isn't closed to all fisheries. I also hope that for those fishermen that heeded the DFO's request and chose not to floss, that they don't lose the chinook fishery as well.

I guess it all will start to make sense for some people who felt the selective methods request by DFO didn't apply to them, particularly if they shut it down altogether...

15-20 foot leaders...? Common.... : Why is it back in the day an angler could bottom bounce for springs with a "normal lengthed" leader and a spin n glow or glob of roe, and then once the sockeye fishery started, suddenly the only way to catch a spring was by lengthening that leader out to ten times its length and switching over to wool...?

DON"T ANSWER THAT. It's a rhetorical question.

Good to see DFO working on this, and to make light of what is always a tough topic, I'll ask...What are they going to do now about all these sockeye being caught by the barfishers...?

I say this as a member, not a mod. :cheers:

rib

 

[nates]

I like member rib, more than mod rib. ;D

 

[Bent Rod]

I would just like to personally thank all the people who continue to unselectively SNAG Salmon on the Fraser.

Your ignorance has not been missed by DFO staff, and your false belief that DFO will not close the river and the false belief that flossing is considered legal by DFO is soon to be put to the test.

The e mail I recieved seems very clear that DFO is not happy with angler compliance and that the meeting monday with SFAC will be an attempt to make changes or further stress the importance of angling selectively at this time of catastrophically low Sockeye numbers. I will add as well that Chinook numbers are way down this season as well.

It is very enjoyable to those of us against the snagging fishery that anglers are acting like spoiled children, makes what we are trying to do SO much easier, carry on boys :thumbup:.

For those that have made adjustments to their angling practices, thank you.

 

[Bent Rod]

Ribwart, in 15 years of barfishing I have hooked 1 sockeye.

What you have here is anglers who are flossers drumming up false reports of bar caught sockeye to try and make other techniques as UNSELECTIVE as theirs.

Ask the guides who have been bar fishing for 3 decades how many sox have hit their glos and you will recieve truthful answers that clearly show that sox bite glos VERY VERY rarely.

Any guy who heads out to barfish with a 10 ounce weight and a 4 foot leader is only snagging those sox when his tackle is constantly sliding down river. Trying sticking with a 20 ounce and see what transpires.

Lets not further cloud this issue with lies and rhetoric, if sox were hitting Glos the whole floss fishery would not exist, PERIOD.

This whole situation is caused by anglers snagging Chinooks, not flossing for sockeye , as that fishery is not even open. The bottom line is Chinook are great biters and there is no need to floss them, EVER.

If the water is too high and dirty, SO BE IT, it allows a good portion of the Chinooks to both avoid anglers and nets and only serves to make this years future brethren to be more abundant and when they return we will probably have better conditions and AWESOME fishing.

 

[steely_crazy]

If only people would use their common sense (I guess I'm assuming that people still possess that) and understand if they dont stop flossing/bb'ing this entire fishery will close down issed:. I'd hate to see it and I agree it would be very painful news to the guides that rely on it for part of their living.

People just dont understand or care about what we are seeing transpire before our eyes, this fishery may be in collapse.

PEOPLE WAKE UP - STOP THE FLOSSING!!!

Very sad indeed. :wallbash:

 

[geolog]

here it goes again. After 30 years on the rivers I finally see how stupid people really are!!

15 boats give me a break, what possible effect can 15 boats have on the overall picture of sockeye declines. One net INTERACTS with more sockeye than all those boats combined. And how many illegal nets did DFO cease last weekend. So give me a break.

As for very sad crap. You know what is really sad is to see a drift net travel 2 miles down the river and haul out well over 300 sockeye when the stocks are declining. (last tuesday evening, phoned it in but nothing happened)

You've missed the entire point with all the bottom bouncers out on the river how many sockeye are actually affected by them in the grand scheme of things. A SMALL AMOUNT minimal at most when compared to the nets both legal and illegal.

You have no one else to blame but yourselves if they shut the river down. All your screaming and yelling about moral, ethical fishing over what a grand total of less than 100 sockeye per weekend if that, that get affected at all, and the majority of those get released in the water.

Congratulations to the elitists and special interest groups that yell fish my way or I'll scream. Instead of focusing on the real fish issue, they've diverted attention away form the main culprits and instead focused on the minority in an idiotic crusade to force their fishing methods on the majority other fisherman.

The problem is they can't even see the fact they are PAWNS being used to turn the bottom bouncers into the evil villains resulting in the sport fishing being shut down. SO DFO can say look we are doing something to save the fish. When in reality they are too chicken to go out and solve the major problem which is the FN nets fishing for springs, illegal drift nets, legal nets as they INTERACT with thousands more sockeye than a bunch of bottom bouncers.

I myself don't care about the debate of bar fishing vs bottom bouncing I use both, what I do care about is how stupid people really are in handing over all the ammunition the political bureaucrats that run DFO need to avoid the problem of nets in the river.

So focus the yelling screaming accusations on the major problems, for even if the river was open to sockeye what's the total sockeye caught by the evil no-moral bottom bouncers 60,000 to 80,000 compare to how many million by the other groups.

What's even funnier is that when sport fishing is shutdown, they will have no choice but to enforce the FN fishery as they will be the only ones fishing.

And maybe that is DFO's plan all along, as the general public will be outraged as fish stocks continue to decline due to the net fishing and since only one group is actively fishing they will know exactly who to blame. Then the real fireworks will begin. In the meantime a major revenue source from tourism and fisherman will have disappeared as people go elsewhere to fish unhindered.

I myself for example will probably take my boat and fish the salt water where treble hooks, multiple rods etc etc are all legal but YES the fish will definitely bite and I'll probably catch a lot more fish, especially with the whole family in tow and even if they shut that down there is always Alaska with their bumper harvests every year!! Ever wonder why??? I'll leave everyone with that thought. Time to go interact with some sockeye. oops sorry springs!!!

 

[Rib]

This thread is about the recreational fishery geolog...not "the reasons behind declining fish stocks on the Fraser", or "political undertones to fishery management"...So, let's not hijack this thread.

I think what many do not understand is that bottom bouncing is a perfectly legit way to fish. If you, geolog have 30 years on the fraser, then you also know this. However, you would also then not remember 15-20 foot leaders back in the day for springs...why 15-20 foot leaders now...?

Let's all keep in mind this discussion is about how the recreational sector impacts sockeye during a closure, not a broad topic that tries to bring in other equally valid issues. We have discussions on those other valid issues going on in other threads already.

Thx,

rib

 

[geolog]

My point exactly.

I 'll spell it out

THE RECREATIONAL FISHERY HAS only a MINIMAL IMPACT ON THE OVERALL SOCKEYE STOCK and bottom bouncing is being used by special interest groups in order to force their minority ideas on the majority of fisherman that fish the fraser. I for one have had enough of this BS as I've witnessed it for 30 years that there is only a MINIMAL IMPACT ON THE OVERALL SOCKEYE STOCK by the RECREATIONAL FISHERY .

Here's another way of looking at it if DFO, hypothetically, closed the river to all methods of fishing other than bottom bouncing and I bet there would be a huge resurgence in all fish stocks. So I think its a total waste of time make all these wild statements and exaggerations that these special interest groups love to make to get their points across when the bottom line is there's only a minimal impact

The overall effect of this vocal minority is that DFO will use the arguements as an excuse to show they are doing something and thus shut the river down to recreational fishing. Which will have no overall effect on the salmon stocks and just anger many hundreds of people that reacreationally fish the Fraser at this time of year to get a few fish for their freezers.

 

[Rib]

Sure, some interesting points geolog, but you didn't address my question about the 15-20 foot leaders...?

Why is it that in recent years that bottom bouncing with such leader lengths is the way it's done...? Used to be 1.5-2 feet of leader, spin n glows and roe were the way to go, bottom bouncing or bar fishing, whichever...

Most everyone knows that to catch sockeye, the 15-20 foot leader is the method of choice, but with the request by DFO to avoid hooking sockeye, however few or many are being hooked, why are anglers not fishing for springs the way it was always done...? Why the 15-20 foot leaders...?

Are you using 15-20 foot leaders when you bottom bounce for springs...? I never did when I fished the fraser for springs back in the day...yet was still able to catch springs...nor did I hook any sockeye, even when they were thick...

Some roe, spin n glow, what have you, and a traditional leader length, and springs were caught...not sockeye. Why do you think the technique has swung over to such extreme leader lengths...?

In the interest of discussion of course,

respectfully,

rib

Off to work now, keep it clean boys and girls...

 

[Steelie Trav]

The way I look at it is DFO has asked the recreational fishermen (and women) to selectively fish for Chinook. Now, BBing is not a selective method to fish for Chinook, it will catch socks, pinks, coho's or whatever might be running at the time. So lets look at this for a moment, DFO is the power that be when it comes down to our waters. So...if they have asked all rec fishers to use selective methods, why don't they? Fact is nobody is listening to them so they might as well shut down the river! The way that DFO sees it is if the sporties aren't willing to comply with the requests of the DFO then they will simply close the river for all. When you were a kid and your parents told you not to do something you listened, or had to pay the consequences. Well this is the same, DFO (being our parents) get to set out the rules for us. If they asked everyone not to BB, then everyone who is, is simply ignoring there request. So what comes next...repercussions! DFO is simply going to punish the sport fishers for not listening to them.

Simple as that!

 

[steely_crazy]

And I'll once again go back to saying that you can only impact things by that which you have control over. As sporties we cannot control the FN, commercials, or how the the DFO enforces. The only thing we can control in all this is our own behavior. We have to take on the responsibilities that we can and then use the avenues of protest available to us to alert govt. etc. that what the commercials or FN are doing during these times of low returns and stocks is also unacceptable.

geolog, you admit we have a minimal effect on this fishery - so we do have an effect on it. Which is why we can do something. Small perhaps, and minimal in your mind, but nonetheless IT WILL HAVE SOME IMPACT!! And,,,,we just may avoid a closure on the Fraser if we do as we are being asked to do. What would you rather do, something that perhaps will get you less fish but still allow you to fish OR having no ability to even fish?

Just comes down to not only listening to what the DFO is telling us as ST put it but also doing what we believe to be the right thing. eace:

 

[abbyfireguy]

The point of my post in the first place was to show that DFO is unhappy with recreational fishers(sporties) which is all of us, not abiding by their repeated requests to not bottom bounce at this time...
When DFO has no request to use selective fishing methods to not catch sockeye then knock yourselves silly bottom bouncing..I could care less about how you harvest a sockeye during an open season as long as its legal....
But, when DFO asks in very plain ,understandable language that anyone can understand,to please use selective methods to not catch sockeye and yet people continue to do whatever they bloodywell like , that my friend ,shows how some of us live in a very self centered world...
If the bottom bouncers had respected DFO's request and there was no bbing at this time, there most probably wouldn't be another meeting to discuss a salmon fishing total closure..Its just that simple..
You don't need to preach at me about the small impact spories harvest has on salmon numbers,I get that,believe me,just ask the moderators, thats not what this thread is about..Its about complying with a DFO request before they have to drop a resource wide bomb on all of us who are out there enjoying the sport.. :

 

[Centerpin]

Hey Guys

I am just curious as to why DFO just didn't just impose a leader length restriction or complete ban of bottom bouncing altogether.

There are always going to be those that feel as long as they are only requesting that you use a selective method then they will continue to fish as they want no matter how self centered and ignorant that may be. I have several friends that I used to fish with that seam to have no problem continuing to bottom bounce and continue to hook Sockeye every time they go out, and actually get pissed with me that I wont go out and poach with them. The fact of the matter is no matter how small an impact we have as sporties we still do have an impact and therefor must err on the side of caution. Every Sockeye that gets snagged and dragged to shore has that much less of a chance of reaching the spawning grounds and laying the eggs for another cycle of fish.

AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAVE CHOSEN TO CONTINUE BOTTOM BOUNCING ARE NO DIFFERENT THEN ANY OF THE ILLEGAL NETTER'S AND OTHER POACHERS AND HAVE NO RIGHT TO BITCH ABOUT THE DECLINE IN FISH STOCKS BECAUSE THEY ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. :naughty:


Centerpin

 

[slaydown]

Everybody has this big problem with bbing.I agree that it probably isnt the most sporting of fishing definately not like my precious steelheading. But here are 3 points 1) Bar fishing is probably the most boring type of fishing in the world 2) When the salmon run on the fraser I am out there for food salmon is expensive( i am not a native american but rather a native BCer, born and raised here and i have a right to these salmon same as everbody else including the natives who are out netting the early stuart run 3)And like the other guy said sportfishing on the fraser has little or no impact on the fish stocks, I dont know if anyone remembers 4 years ago when the dfo opned the fraser to the natives and commercial fisherman who were out there netting everything. One day you were getting fish after fish then the next nothing all day it was like someone turned off the tap. That was what screwed everything up over netting of the 4 year old fish. When the dfo says it could be warmer temps or not enough food for the yearlings that is just a cover up for poor management.So if you dont want to bb dont, just stop your whining when i do.

 

[chummer]

DFO overestimate the maturity level of average people fishing on the Fraser bars.

No matter what DFO say without enforcement, most of the people used to BB'g will keep their practice forever.

DFO, please make it short and clear, and ban BB'g completely!

It is not sport fishing like at all!

We don't need a debate anymore IMO.

It has been so unproductive too long.

 

[Bent Rod]

Geolog, could you please refrain from completely unknowledgeable posts that are not based in any sort of reality.

First off Sockeye were never a sportfish until about 12 years ago, when DFO made the huge mistake of opening them. Please spare me the 30 years of experience BS.
At first it was believed by anglers , guides and DFO that these fish were biting our green wool fished under floats, and some actually were. Then guys discovered that a 15 foot leader fished sans float was what really put socks on the beach, that was the birth of the long leader flossing party. Next we discovered bettys and 25 foot leaders, braided line and the super casts. Next thing we have is a generation of guys in love with the NO SKILL method of snagging salmon. During this time DFO was watching and in light of angler pressure and not being able to enforce anti snagging laws, based on loopholes in the regs, they allowed thisfishery to continue, during Sockeye openings.
Then we have greedy anglers and guides who not wanting to rely on skill or knowlegde to catch fish, begin to use this technique to catch the good biting Chinook Salmon, this really irked the anglers who believe in SPORT and was the real catalyst for the movement to rid our waters of snagging techniques.

We are now at the point where people seek out low water holding spots for all gamefish, including the Steelhead and this snagging technique is on display all year long on all species of fish.

I can relate all this to you because I was a snagger, I poached fish IMO, as I was fully aware that I was snagging salmon. I was there from day 1 brotha, so spare me the BS. I probably played a part in the looooong leaders, the use of corkies.
I admitted to myself some years ago that I was breaking the law as if you actually take a REG book and read it, there is a part that states, it is unlawful to intentionally snag a fish.
Well boys and girls, anytime you are tossing looooong leaders into dirty water with a great hook and a swinging line, you are attemting to SNAG fish PERIOD. There is no amount of BS that can refute this FACT.
It's all in the regs and any amount of screaming about FN , Commercial fisherman and the like is just a smokescreen.

This meeting on monday is about SPORTS FISHERMAN, their behaviour and lack of respect for DFO's request.
It was both avoidable and seriously lacking in forsight to blatantly ignore their request.

As for barfishing being boring, so is trolling in the ocean, and mooching and jigging, this is a moot point, what should we allow anglers to use seal bombs dropped into bait fish schools beacuse it's fun and it's only a harvest anyway??.

Keep in mind that Sockeye , Chums and Pinks were once considered commercial fish and NO in river fisheries were allowed on these stocks. But as Chinook and Coho stocks fell they have been slowly turned to sportfish.
The guys that fought to have these fish opened for sportfishing are the very same guys who know look to have floss fisheries abolished. They are being treated extremely poorly by many pro flossers and the internet anglers.

The same drive and determination that these people exhibited having DFO open these fish to angling and retention is being used in efforts to have snag fisheries done away with. They have mass contacts in media, govt and the sport fishing sector and I think calling them out on the internet is feeding the fire so to speak.

Every post I read that bashes on these individuals is music to my ears, as it only increases the determination of these people.

A full river closure will only serve to further strengthen actions to rid our waters of snagging. Hopefully it does not come to this, but if it does a ENORMOUS wake up call will be served.

As anglers it is time to defend our rights to fish ethically and with sport and fair chase involved.
Knowing when to back off in light of conservation concerns in our duty.NOW is that time.

No Canadian, FN or otherwise is entitled to harvest fish during times of serious conservation concerns.
As anglers we can start the movement to adressing this issue, first with our actions and next with banding together to put pressure on DFO to protect them from other user groups.

You will quickly find that the guys being called "eltists","anti flossing fanatics" and the like are some of the strongest allies you will ever have in stopping the overharvest of our salmon and obtaining opportunities to sport fish. I know as I stood beside them in protest of FN overfishing.

 

[barkleyjames]

Why is it that no-one can differentiate the difference between bottom bouncing and flossing. They are NOT the same. I'm reading all kinds of reports that equate bottom bouncing as flossing.
Bottom bouncing is a tried and true method for salmon and steelhead. I personally have never bounced for steelhead, but an old friend of mine, who fished with a spinning reel, used to be deadly bouncing spin and glos for steelhead.
Not once was a fish ever hooked outside the mouth.
You cannot snag a fish using a leader 18-24"---it just doesn't compute.
So please guys------bottom bouncing, done correctly is NOT flossing.
That said, if we do get an opening for sockeye I will go out one time and try to floss my two fish. But that will be it!
Licence $40
Salmon Tag $20
Gas$20
Beer $18
Cost per fish $49

 

[Centerpin]

Hey barkleyjames

Yes you are right there is a difference between the two and it regularly gets overlooked by the majority. Maybe everyone should make an effort to refer to the two methods by their proper names: the legal version of Bottom Bouncing with a lure or bait and a 18" or 24" leader, and the Flossing,snagging or poaching method.

Centerpin

 

[hotrod]

"just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water" or "just when I thought I was out they keep pulling me back in!"



Hotrod