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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Due to large returns and not wanting to recycle fish down river so anglers can have another crack at them, WDFW has raised the limit to 6 fish a day.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/do/newreal/release.php?id=jun0807a

Now don't think I am in favor of raised limits, just that it clearly shows that Washington is far more active in creating sportfisheries than we can ever hope to be.
Instead we have the Capalaino and Seymour Rivers, once great Summer Run streams, basically devoid of fish. We dam these rivers, suck her life flowing H2O
for our purposes and MOE hides behind SH!T like "we are trying to protect WILD fish.
Clearly these urban streams should be pumped with Summer steelhead and a long standing history of summer steelheading in them could be continued. This could provide recreation for anglers of all ages, and provide something great for youngsters to do during their summer vacation.
We wonder why our youth turn to drugs and crime, perhaps it's the complete disregard for providing them with recreation. No concrete skateboard park can replace the fun and joy this kids would realize slumming the banks of a river with rod and reel.

Rant Over , continue.....
 

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Insane....they must have incredible numbers of steelhead down there.....maybe one day we can have those numbers up here in Region 2....

Mike <"))))><
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Mike, it's so bad up here now, that we are gonna be losing the wild genetics on most our Lower mainland streams.
What then, either use transplants or forget about it and continue to rape the land and water and keep building them condos near the rivers.

Reading about the old days on the Capalaino and Coquihalla at this time of the year, makes me sad.
 

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I've heard many a stories from old timers that i've fished the cap with. And those stories will never be a reality again. All the favoured fly runs were blocked by the concrete wall at the hatchery, and the dam. the cap and the seymour were once the best steelhead rivers in the lowermainland. Now they are completely void of any fish. But just because i hooked and landed my first steelhead there, i'm still hoping that one day i will connect with another one, in the same spot on the same gear with the same bait. Every time i visit that river i take a few minutes to remember all the good memories and some of the stupid memories that have happened.
 

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Rod
with out any doubt, MoE is so busy trying to manage sportfishermen fishing on the last ones that ther is not a hope for steelhead in region 2. Until the day arrives that MoE trys to deal with the fact that we have a lot of nice rivers almost devoid of steelhead, a population over 2 million in region 2, a complete generation of anglers (under 30 years old) that are used to having almost nothing return so they think getting runs sizes of a few hundred fish is great, we are doomed. There is no bright light for the future until some group somewhere realizes what we could have for sport fishing oppurtunities instead of trying to make it what we once had that we can never get again and pressures MoE into doing something about it. You don't need to be in favor of raised limits just enough fish to actually have some to fish for and there should be nothing wrong with having enough summer run steelhead in a few lower mainland rivers to allow a small harvest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Good post RLN.

I travelled down to Southwest washington 2 seaons ago and caught Steelhead in 3 rivers in 2 days.
One river the South Toutle was completely devastated by Mt St Helens, I mean the River was buried by it, steelhead runs GONE, or so they thought. Stocked with Skamania strain steelies, we had a half dozen hookups on hathcery steelhead that fought like hell, jumped like dolphins and had me forgetting their origin quite quickly.
Next I travelled across the valley to a river the size of the Kanaka, here I hooked a 14 lb summer run, that was completely out of control, lost it after the 15th jump :thumbup:. Saw around 15 other fish hooked including one that went 17 lbs easy(it was bonked naturally).
At this point my American friend apologized for the slow fishing and told me it was a slow start to the sesaon :eek:.
Next day I hit another local river and had another multi fish day, landing a couple nice Skamania fish, around 8 pounds a piece. Decide to kill one and check out their rumored delicousness, very true that those summer runs are top quality eats.
My licence for the year was around 30 dollars and no TAGS or other massive cash grabs needed. How can they afford this, producing Steelhead for sportsmen to enjoy?.
After listening to our Steelhead guys wax on about it being too costly to hatchery produce Steelhead I was confused.
Then I realized that of course it is too costly, because we have abandoned producing good fisheries and turned a generation off angling.
Now I think back to the MOE employee who was complaining to me about lack of licence sales, stating that they sold far more licences back in the 80's.
Is it any coincidence that ocean survival was fabulous during those years and word gets out quickly when fishing is good. Add in the effect of the mass river stockings for the EXPO season and you probably had anglers buying licences for years after thinking this was typical angling.
If MOE really wants to sell some licences, then a good start would be hatchery producing fish for anglers to catch PERIOD.
IMO a generation of Steelhead crazy youngsters would go a long way to having more guys willing to become River guardians helping save ther actual wild rivers we still haven't paved.

Sure be nice to be heading to the _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ right now to catch a few summer runs( thanks to the hatchery in Abbottsford :thumbup:), instead of waiting for MOE to decide to have a gold rush opening later in the summer, when temps are not good for catch and release and anglers are stressing fish with undergunned rods and gossamer leaders ::).
 

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Good posts fellers......one of my "old timer" buddies that I fish with frequently has some dandy stories from the 70's and 80's and he said he used to catch winter run steelhead by the dozens...he said he would fish the chehalis or vedder for half a day and manage a dozen or more fish during peak times....a slow day was 6 steelhead he would say...and a skunk day was few a far between...and look at it now....6 steelhead is a spectacular day in today's world.....and having skunk day today is more than common :-\

Now down in the states...is the stalking down there "Private" compared to up here being "governmentally" run? I know there are volunteers helping in broodstocking, etc.....but how are things managed.....I guess we can compare rivers like the chehalis, vedder, coq etc. to the stamp river...now there is a river that is properly managed.....

I guess the question I am trying to ask is....what needs to be done to improve these stocks...and what can one do to help....

MOE is far too busy trying to charge people to fish for sturgeon to worry about our steelhead stocks anyways.... ::)

Mike <"))))><
 

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Just listening to you guys is kind of depressing. I've never caught a steelhead, and although i've never really tried too hard they seem like a lot of fun. And this next season when i try again, I want to be able to catch one, and far more in the future. I dont think it is too much to ask from MOE that we should be conserving the natural beauty of this province, while all the government is allowing is activities that make it worse. Lowering river levels with thos dams, not stocking rivers with adequate amounts of fish, things like that.

I know it is not just me, but is all of you too that would like to be fishing in the province for many years to come, and not have to look at a picture or a video to get that feeling in your stomach you get when you catch a fish. Something has to be done to increase fish stocks. But what?
 

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You obviously don't fish the Seymour R., if you did you would know that your post just got squashed! :-* These rivers get a decent return of summers compared to what they did 10 years ago before you started fishing. Where on this earth is the Capalaino?
 

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Brad said:
You obviously don't fish the Seymour R., if you did you would know that your post just got squashed! :-* These rivers get a decent return of summers compared to what they did 10 years ago before you started fishing. Where on this earth is the Capalaino?
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I Believe I read they transport returning hatchery steelhead back down river for anglers to catch again? Do we do this here?
 

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Steely said:
I Believe I read they transport returning hatchery steelhead back down river for anglers to catch again? Do we do this here?
the used to do this and something happened in Washington State that does not allow this to happen any longer. WDFW was transporting fish to local lakes to create a sport fishery on the excess summer runs and this stopped due to warm waters.
 

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one thing to realize is not all is poerfect in Washington state either, they just realized a long time ago that to have any sort of viable sport fishery, they would have to plant fish and lots of them to keep things going. There are many examples of where they failed. Here in BC, once you get past lake fishing (MoE has done an excellent job overall) there has been no thought process looking ahead into the future to see how a number of things like overall human population, habitat destruction,etc, will affect returns of steelhead. Ask any one within MoE ( I did ) what they think river fishing in region 1 or 2 will look like in 20 years and not one of them can give you an answer. They are just too busy trying to save the last wild steelhead (and we all need to do this) to even think about shaping a viable sport fishery that will encourage new anglers to go and give it a try. All we have is the Chiiliwack/Vedder with a decent enough population of winter fish and almost every other stream with run sizes less than 500 fish, many with under 100 and just the religous method (hope and pray) being used to try and increase run sizes.
 

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Interesting read fellas. With out stearing this thread too far off base of BentRod's original post. I do have one question, which I've posed in the past to local hatchery staff. Perhaps it just went in one ear and out the other, I just can't recall. :drunk: :happy: I could go on and on, but I'll keep it short and sweet. Why is the Stamp system stocked with winter runs so much more agressively compared to the Vedder? I've ben told by former hatchery staff that the number is about double over there to what is reared and released here. :confused:

Finder :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My rant was based on streams that are ruined by habitat desrtuction and all the other problems.
These are prime candidates for large scale enhancement for sportfishing purposes.

Not nearly enough value is given to the economic boost a strong steelhead fishery can generate, and the pure recreational experience that this can provide.

The Vedder, through much enhancement, a ton of habitat work and being such a large watershed, has survived the problems. But it's future is far from rosy if you take a close look around.

All the other systems are just hanging on including the Seymour. So what if it is slightly better than the BRUTAL years, it still sucks. Just because a few guys who fish it relegiously can eek out fish does not to speak to good runs of Steelhead. Does it have a hatchery??, of course it does and without it where would it be??.
This was another project that had to be fought for, when it was a no brainer.

Look no farther than the Sea to sky rivers if you want proof that the Status Quo us failing, having to pay for a Steelhead tag in those streams is criminal.

I can visit valley Rivers with tiny runs and find fish, it doesn't make these Rivers even decent Steelhead fishing streams, they are merely just surviving.

I just wonder at what point are we faced with completely closed Rivers or we mitigate for lost opportunity and enhance steelhead.

Water use should come at a price and fish enhancement should be one of them.
 

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I have been telling people for years that the Yanks and the folks back in Ont have fisheries far better than ours. Not that we don't have potential: no it's that our fisheries has spin doctors feeding us and the rest of the world old news from the 40's; when this was the place to be. I challenge you to take a trip south or east and try it. When is the last time you saw a 20lb Kokanee? Never! Well then, take a trip to Idaho and check out Lake Pend Oreille. Think those Kokanee are big, I won't tell the size of Kamloop Bow or Lakers there because you won't believe that either. I don't need to talk about Wash, that has already been done. Maybe you don't want to go south. Okay then, what about the fisheries in and around the great lakes. I won't talk about the Springs & Coho; lets talk Rainbow. How does 30 lb sound. Yup they have them. Why don't we? It can be done, But it takes the people in charge to do it.

Now don't get me wrong and think that I don't believe we have good fisheries here; we do. It's just that I know they could be better, allot better. It's up to us to let the governing bodies know we are not buying their bull. We need the people in charge of these thing to spend more time producing and less time pandering platitudes.
 

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Well here is another point of view for you. The problem is farr deeper than just stocking the river. Lets look at the Vedder for example, every fall the lower end turns into a frenzy with all the flossers pounding the bottom end. Now here's where the problem starts, Dfo's first mistake was to allow flossing to escalate into what it has become today. The new large population of fisherman, who have not learned any other techniques except flossing and the increased fish catch rate, do not know about the presentation side, the whole sport side of the hunt. The first thing dfo has to do is get flossing back under control and find a way to teach different techniques to the masses.
Now I do remember seeing the Vedder with coho so thick you could damn near walk across them in runs in the yarrow area, or what about Allison pool so thick the water looked black, these are thing the next generation, ( mike d and the gang) will probably never get to see. The regs on retention also have to be brought up to snuff, 4 hatchery coho per day, come on knock that in half.
Why couldn't they turn the Vedder into a classified water, stock the snot out of it, regulate the crap out of it, and see where that takes it.
With the Stamp that will be a intresting river to watch over the next few years. I can bet if you ask any of the local old timers about the added pressure over the last few years I'll be willing to bet you would hear a few grumbles, though the river still produces massive amounts of fish. Can it hold up agaisnt added fishing pressure?
About developing near rivers that is another sore spot, what happened to set backs from water and protection of sensitive streams, if you have the money and know the right people and loop holes you can build where ever or do pretty much what you want and that isn't right. It's time to protect this resource before it is completely destroyed
Cheers,
Crazy D
 
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