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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All,,, I wanted to alert our Sturgeon fishermen out there that the MOE is considering a new stamp for Sturgeon fishing on the Fraser. MOE wants a surcharge for sturgeon to "study" the fishery, its impact, etc.. This is currently under review and is being fought by various interest groups due to the fact that there is a wealth of data already which is available from the folks doing sturgeon guiding, including the tagging program. Anyway, my intent isn't to start a debate about this but to bring you the info on meetings to be held with the public regarding the initiative. Here are the meeting locations. I know a lot of guys on the board enjoy this fishery and might want their voices heard at the public meetings. I personally think this is a money grab and dont think another stamp is going to benefit anyone but the governments pocketbook.

May 14, 2007
7:00 pm-9:00 pm
Ramada Hotel
10410 158th Street, Surrey

May 15, 2007
7:00 pm-9:00 pm
Rhombus Hotel,
45920 First Avenue, Chilliwack

May 23, 2007
7:00 pm-9:00 pm
Ministry of Environment
400-640 Borland Street, Williams Lake

May 24, 2007
7:00 pm-9:00 pm
District of Lillooet REC Centre
930 Main Street, Lillooet
 

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OK: Here is my POV....apparently the "Surcharge" is going to range anywhere between 25-60 bucks for the tag...since this money is going right into MOE's pockets anyways :pissed: and not coming back to the fisherman in anyway.....I say screw it.....rediculous...many members of the fishing community and the guiding community have spent tons of time and money on the sturgeon recovery/tagging program etc.....and are they reefing in any money for the project? no...they get rewarded by knowing that there is going to be a strong number of sturgeon availiable for decades to come! :thumbup:

Now there is 2 ways to look at this....recreationally and comercially (guides).....

Recreational:....25-60 bucks...now if your an annual fisherman who is out there every week targeting these beasts...you might say...hey this could be paid for reely quickly....(maybe not) or if your just fishing for one day..25-60 bucks is a little much don't you think?

Commercially: Guide and 4 Clients are out there salmon fishing....client says "since we have all of our fish for the day can we go sturgeon fishing for the last 3 hours of the trip" guide says "sure" pauses...."but that will cost you 60 bucks a person...so 240 bucks ontop of your 600 dollar day"

This could seriously affect the guiding industry...as I'm sure...actually I know...that most people that come here to target sturgeon will not spend 60 bucks a day each to go fish for them ontop of their $200per person rate!

Several local guides that I know are furious at MOE as they know they are just looking for another way to put anglers money into their pockets!

My 2 cents
Mike <"))))))><
 

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Bang on Mike. Glad to see non guides who recognize that this surcharge will cripple the tourism in our area.
There are not alot of negatives revolving around the Sturgeon fishery, it brings in a huge tourism dollar to our communities and has been proven to be a most sustainable resource, not a word we hear often.

It's amazing that a salt water guide needs no licence and licence fees for salt water angling pale in comparison to the fresh water scene. Considering we are sending home foreign anglers from our salt water with truckloads of our brood fish.

Must say something about the Provincial Govt???. :naughty:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm up for attending if anyone else is interested (Surrey or Chilli). It may be nice to have a bunch of people from BCFR involved. I'm personally against this and think its just a money grab, but hey its the government and thats what they do right? :pissed: Maybe not if enough attend and make some noise!

PM me or let me know here, if theres enough interest we can all link up at the meeting or prior to for a beverage.
 

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As a guide I will be there to have my voice heard...
The bean counters obviously see this as a huge cash grab.. In reality, it will do nothing but take tourism dollars away from all the Fraser Valley communities....
Any sentence that has the words study and government in it mean the same as the words ---ready,aim ,fire...
Both pretty much have an end result being the death of the intended target... :wallbash:
 

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I'm not a guide (yet) ....... but I do enjoy fishing for Sturgeon a lot. Anyone with 1/2 a brain can see what a $60.00 Sturgeon stamp would do to the guiding industry ....... you are all right ......... it's a lot of money to pay for one day of Sturgeon fishing on top of the guide, accomodation, fishing license, and Salmon/Steelhead stamp.

On the other hand, we presently pay for Steelhead tags and Salmon stamps ....... isn't that supposed to help fund the programs and hatcheries that help sustain those runs? If I'm not mistaken don't people who come to fish those fisheries as tourists also have to purchase the same Steelhead or Salmon stamp that we do???

But then again, we certainly don't pay $60.00 for either of those stamps so why would a Sturgeon stamp need to be so expensive???

IMO, if all the following criteria were met ...

a) The cost was reasonable (similar to other tags),
b) The money was ALL going to fund research,
c) The money was ALL going to help pay costs associated with the tagging program,
d) The money was going to pay for the proper prossessing of data by qualified induviduals,
e) The research was made public so that one could actually see some progress and results,
f) The collection and dispersal of funds was disclosed to the general public,
g) The program can ensure that there will always be a sustainable Sturgeon Fishery to enjoy,


...... then I would probably support such a fee.


Since meeting all of the above requirements will never happen ...... I certainly oppose it.

Governments are always quick to jump on the bandwagon and to start spouting off about needing another "study". Then they have to have another "study" to "study the study". It's just another money grab and another high paying job for a friend of some government guru.

If anything happens perhaps the people who enjoy the fishery can come up with their own group plan and organized "study" that would better utilize the funds and communicate the findings back to those that contribute.

Just my own :2cents:


GOFISH 8)
 

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Well this is going to be a intresting topic that over the next few months to watch as the weather warms and more people get out on the water and the rumor mills about how much it is going to cost for the surcharge, where are the funds going and what type of programs will the surcharge fund, Harpers Holidays?. As far as damaging the guiding industry, well if you are a good business man this should be mearly a bump, with the bulk of clients comming in from over seas, with the chance of catching one of theses 10' plus monsters as so oftenly advertised, if dfo inserted a 15 dollar surcharge per person, big deal they already have them paying a $ 30 surcharge for a fish that you can keep. If anything maybe that will help weed out some of the fly by night guides out there due to the higher rates, pretty sad when you have a guy ask you how to tie on stink bait and where can you buy it from, at the boat launch. For the Rec angler if you are pasionate about fishing for them then it'll be just another typical govt sting in the ass. Why cant dfo just put out a type of volunteer log, or journal like they did on the vedder back in the eighties, have where did you catch the fish , girth,length. Like it has been said before over the last few years guides have been tagging and monitoring these fish more closely than any other group out there, instead of another BS study and assesment why not talk to the people who care most about these fish,
See ya'll at the meeting
Cheers,
Crazy D
P.S Abby I think you hit it on the head, and BR i agree, the whole guiding industry does need to be over hauled, it should be more uniformed salt vs fresh
 

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I got into this topic on another forum alot of good points made and alot people whining about another 25 bucks. The way I see it if all it is going to take is 25 bucks to get 1/3 of the fisherman out of the water go for it. Than there is more of a chance for the sturgeon population to expand. I will pay the 25 for them awesome fighting machines anyday
 

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What r u saying? That people catching the sturgeon are killing them? ??? All I can say that if it wasn't for the guides and their clients going out there and landing sturgeon and tagging them I'm sure we would not be targeting them today.....most of this money came from the guides pockets with very little or no gov support! I will try to be at the meeting......I might have to sew a BCFR patch on my hoody so people know who I am!

Mike <"))))))><
 

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fish30
getting people off of the water is not going to help in any sort of way. It may even hurt some. MoE and the BC Freshwater Fisheries Society are run off of your license money. If no one goes fishing , no maney for the programs. Do you want lake stocking cut or stopped? This will happen with more drops in license sales. The sturgeon population has never recovered from the mass killing of them from the late 1800's to the early 1900's. Having a few less catch and release sturgeon guys out will change nothing if the population has not rebounded in the last 100 years.
 

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I've just been off of work for a few days and a few more to go with a stitched up finger getting bored thought i'd pick a controversial topic say something that didn't make sense and was on the opposite side of the fence and see what happened
 

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It seems weird to make someone buy a extra tag for a catch and release only fishery. Wouldn't it just be easier to raise license fees all around by a buck to cover this? I dunno but MFO and DFO are both useless in my opinion anyways.
 

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the way i see it is we pay already for every other species whats one more if it is resonable.i think too much is being over thought in regards to the cost of such fees. if only 1 dollar from every tag purchased makes it back into the system,it is one more dollar than it had before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
think too much is being over thought in regards to the cost of such fees. if only 1 dollar from every tag purchased makes it back into the system,it is one more dollar than it had before.
Wow,,,,you dont expect much from your government (and reasonably so :wallbash:). For example, lets say the cost is 25$, thats only 4% going back into the fishery, completely unacceptable IMO.

You have to realize whats currently happening to tag monies already. There is no accountability for tag revenues, the government cant tell you how much of it they are using toward stock recovery, and enhancement programs (which is what the tags were introduced for). Also, special tags monies such as the Classified Waters tag were supposed to go to guardianship but they produced nothing of the sort.

The pigs are at the trough,,,,time to stop feeding them.
 

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First off, I have been involved in many "meetings" in the past where facts were not properly presented prior to the meeting....What happens is the people who are holding/arranging the meetings come prepared with all the data they need to either have you shut up or sit down....Oh, they will politely listen, however they are there for a reason....To get more info to return to the MOE, Enviro and the Fisheries Dept...
If you are planning on attending these meetings, you will likely see only one side (YOURS) and not be fully prepared to make any statements regarding this proposed tag. ie the benefits vs. cash grab
If you have documented evidence that will help support any claims you may wish to take, you have then loaded your gun for a fair fight.
This site and others tend to be focussing on what has been done in the past with our fees and licenses tags etc....Ask these people to show you their documents that prove the money has been well spent..
Ask these people the reasons behind this planned surcharge and tell them how much money the Sturgeon fishery brings to the economy...PLENTY!!
Gather all the info you can and have supportive papers or references when asked to support your claims....Otherwise..........
It might sound something like this in the boardroom on Monday

"Meetings were held to discuss the proposed sturgeon
tags..several people raised questions as to the validity of this proposal, but other than a few sportsfishers who already pay high fees, I think this should fly and we can get another piece of the pie and make it a fairly lucrative one by carefully diguising where the money goes and we can use this to help pay for the increase in our salaries!"

With respect to our overpaid underworked elected officials.......Ortho 8)
 

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Last nights meeting was a JOKE :pissed: MOE was so un organized and full of sh!t that is was coming out of their eyes......I have about 5 pages of notes that I took last night....I will go through them today and post the most valuable of them info wise on here tonight.....

On a side note: They (MOE) started discussing this in 2005 and we only (the anglers) heard about this 2 weeks ago....and for the 2 years that they have had to discuss this....unreal....so unorganized...I think it was a little misleading aswell....82% of their info came/comes from the guides who are spending their time and money on the tagging and research projects....so in other words....the guides do the homework...and MOE presents it in an awkward fassion....

All I'm saying for now....as I know there was 2 other members from here there!

Mike <"))))))><
 

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There was a article in last weeks local paper about a school class doing a study on the historyand importance of the sturgeon. I just glanced over it quickly , but I believe, the MOE was donating $60,000 to further the tagging and studying of the sturgeon population, Maybe it's a small step in the right direction,and a little gov' support to boot.
Cheers,
Crazy D
 

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ribwart said:
No more on this guys...? Interested to hear the rest... :-\
HAHA Love going through old threads.....you want to hear the rest? lol ;D

Just looking at my notes still :happy:

Proposed Tag Fee
Residential:
1 Day $8
8 Day $15
Annual $25

Non-Residential
1 Day $15
8 Day $30
Annual $60

100% surcharge for fishery! could this be a lie? :confused:

The plan is (was) to have these fees/tags take place April of 2008 so next year, and they were going to do a 5 year effective review 5 years later...so in 2013...

These fees are supposed to go to:
Fishery Monitoring
Stock Assesment
Monitoring of fish
Counting Funds
Fishery Management

This fund is supposed to be sperate from the government, and the government wants no money.....so this is a dedicated fund to sturgeon fishing.....

BELOW MISSION IS FAIR GAME! as it is classed as tidal waters and is not the provincial governments responsibilillty.....there is also between 40,000 - 100,000 sturgeon on the lower fraser river...it changes yearly as they migrate.....supposed by MOE

Here are the basic notes....
I haven't heard anything on the matter in a while....has anyone else?

Mike <"))))><
 
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