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I posted this in the Stave River thread however I wanted to place this in it's own thread in order to create a thread not about what people are doing wrong but how we can help to try and fix our precious resourse.

Now on the topic of unethical angling.............

Well, it goes to say that even some people out there know they are doing something wrong or imporperly, however they don't seem to care unless someone is watching them. Why is it that they don't care how they are fishing until someone is looking? Probably because it is the only way they know how to catch said fish. They might have even tried ethical methods without any luck, then switched back to how they know how to catch a fish. This is where the sport angler steps in even though it really isn't easy for one to do so, especially when you can spend your whole day trying to teach "newbies" and not even get to wet your own line (or that is how it would be if we tried to eductae the entire river). So now we are left with a large number of people interested in fishing, some for meat others for pleasure. The problem is that most don't seem to know how to entice a fish to bite down on your lure or bait. They are doing what they do because it is the only way they know how. Now we are left with one question, how do we educate when the educated are the minority? It makes it very difficult, how many people are you willing to teach before you get fed up and just want to fish?

Sure we can try and instate tests in order to get your licenses, but how much money are we willing to spend on something that probably won't change anything. Just because someone is aware of what is right it doesn't mean that they are going to do it. A lot of what we see on our rivers is going to be something we are going to have to get somewhat used to. That is until the Government is able to set in place strict guidlines on legal angling practises. Another way would be to instate a large number of catch and release fisheries, which I believe there should be more of.

The population of our beautiful province is growing....rapidly, it is something we are all going to have to get used to. With it is a larger number of people interested in angling for thier own reasons. As more people start to see these unethical methods of catching fish they too will start to angle unethically, and so on.....

What we can do is make sure that poachers are reported when possible and also to try and lend a helping hand with the "newbies". If we all do that then we can possibly see less of the crap most of us have come to witness. But when it comes down to the number of people on the flows, that is something we are all going to have to get used to, there is no way around it.

To quote a great movie, "And that is all I have to say about that!" ~Forrest Gump
 

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Steelie, what some anglers are doing is going to the media to raise awareness of the problem.
This is being done to try and get govt to change regulations and increase enforcement where it is needed.

Our first step is ban flossing and use gear restrictions to make it difficult to do.
Secondly we WILL have the Fraser floss fisheries put to sleep.
Next will come spot closures at key problem spots, especially during low water.
Also needed is an increase in enforcement effort. The anglers who are cheating the system need to once again live in fear of having their gear taken and fines given. This season has seen an increase in just this, with anglers being busted for keeping foul hooked fish by plain clothes CO"s :thumbup:.

I think the last thing is as an angler if you see stuff happening such as dragging foul hooked up the beach, ripping, killing foul hooked fish, killing closed species, and any other crap, speak up. It is YOUR river and your kids rivers, take it personally, beacuse it is an attack on our amazing resource.

I do just this on a system where I guide often, I stop my boat and have heated discussions with the (edited) anglers who feel it is fun to bottom bounce with long leaders over redds, dragging fish up the beach and kicking them back in. I get out my pen and paper, write down their WN numbers and call them in right while they are standing there. One group has met me numerous times. I have shown them how to float fish, given them jigs and they have watched my clients hammer fish enough times that you would think they would change their ways.
It's probably the fact that they are really after the closed to retention chinooks, which can be real hard to catch at times and they have found snagging to be the key.
I watched one group foul hook a 50 pound Chinook, fight it down river for at least a half hour. Then I see them return in their boat and one guy is scooping water into the boat ???. They beach the boat and out comes this Chinook, not moving and definately dying. I yell to my clients to reel in, and we blast over there. By now one guy has the fish held vertically with his hands up it's gills, I explode into a tirade about catch and release, the closure on Chinooks and the fact they just killed an amazing 50 pound doe with eggs for the next generation.
The guy tells me they just wantd a picture, then passes the fish to his buddy for photo op 2. At this point I am physically going after the fish to release it, so Jethro hucks it into 3 feet of water where it lays motionless.
His best revival technique was to poke at the great Chinook with his UGLY Stick.
I had to chill as I was with clients , so I phoned RAPP, made a report and gave them one last blast about burning pick ups and slashed tires.
I have never seen those guys again, thankfully.

I see this stuff far too often and this is why I am so against the direction our fisheries have taken since the introduction of the Sockeye fishery, it is the single biggest reason we are in this mess. We've trained a generation of angler to have no respect for fish, the art of fishing or the regulations that make it a sport.

As for the uneducated, I do my best to help these people out, it's the ones that know better that are the problem here, as they teach the uneducated the crap.
 

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Say you peace but be solid, bring cameras, RAPP line on speed dial, and be careful i've seen knife fights, verbal wars and such that could get ugly. I've been in situations where booze and drugs which pumped up the stupidity level with heavy swearing around kids, makes you wanna slit their throats open.
It is sad that the over crowded rivers are full of these "people" and it seems that the true fishermen and women are being outnumbered by morons.
It upsets me when these threads come about cause it is happening too often every year....
 

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I too wish there was an easy fix, but alas, an incident I was involved with last season on Norrish Creek now compells me to make a silent oath and walk away when I see stupidity on our rivers. For those that do not know Norrish Creek, it is a beautiful series of deeper pools linked by shallow, fast runs. Tight waters with nice returns of coho and chum. It was at one of these shallow runs that I came upon a small group of children and adults, out to "enjoy" the beautiful sunny day, and was horrified to watch the kids throwing large rocks at the exposed group of dark coho trying to get through the shallows. Two fish had been killed already and when I approached and began to explain that these natural treasures did not return here after four hard years at sea and a long, difficult journey to this spot only to have large rocks dropped on their heads, the kids immediately stopped throwing rocks at the fish - and threw them at me instead. And the adults shouting at me to mind my own business and get the @#$% out of there while I could still walk!

I could only shake my head in sadness that these kind of fellow humans share the space we love to escape to, and hope that some day a higher being will even the score with them. We've all got similar stories of the stupid behaviour we witness, and it's too bad they're all real. What is it about big fish in shallow water that brings out the worst in some people?
 

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Why do you single out the American anglers bend rod? burnt trucks and slashed tires?? For a moderator how the hell do you get away with this?...I'm sorry I ever bought any of your jigs and I hope we do run into each other on the river!!!

I PRAY I catch you or anyone trying to do something to my truck buddy!!! I have some nice surprises for you!!! Look for me I fish with Rick, Dave sometimes and Norm knows me...I'm might be an old guy but i'll be damned if I listen to your sheeit!!!
 

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Until something is done, we can only watch the rest of them bring down our fishery with there unethical methods. But we still have our awesome steelhead fishery, good luck trying to snag one of those bad boys! :thumbup:
 

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I guess this is a classic case of you reap what you sow. From what I understand, back in the day, there used to be no sport fishing for sox until a group of "dedicated" anglers pushed for it and were successful. Then someone figured out that using 10 foot leaders were the key to get fish to "bite." And Pandora's box was opened. So, then the guides jump in and guarantee that clients can get fish, tackle shops jump in and start selling tons of gear and all of a sudden fishing ain't so hard anymore. Anyone can get a fish. And, more importantly the price of fish is on the rise so that 8lb sock is worth $$$ to you. Human nature being what it is, (greedy) and meat fisherfolks start crawling out of the woodwork during salmon season. And let's face it, unless you C and R every fish you land, even the sporties are "meat' fisherfolks. And from that perspective, what's the point of going fishing if you don't bring back a fish or four each outing?

People like to be successful. If I fish, I want to hook into a few each time I go. The more the better. Don't have to land all of them but certainly would like to land a few. And yes, bring home a few too. And, for a lot of people who don't know any better, whatever works is okay. After all, don't fix it if it ain't broke, especially if the techniques lands a few fish. And among those snagged fish, some will be legitimately hooked in the mouth and enticed to bite and often enough to keep using the same technique. Granted the majority may be hooked in the belly.

Steel T is absolutely right that the population is growing and more people are fishing. When people believed it was hard to catch fish, they didn't do it as much. When it got easy to catch fish, they came out in droves. And they will keep coming and more of them. That tide can't be stemmed. So, you can b*tch about it or live with it. Either way it won't change.

Education is important. And so is lawful enforcement. Key word is LAWFUL. I get so tired of people threatening to take the law into their own hands. Burnt pick ups and slashed tires? Give me a break. That kind of immature response I would expect in high school. As a professional guide and mod on this site Rod, you're starting to look a little over the edge to me. That's disappointing. And pointing fingers at our neighbours down south? We only need to look in the mirror. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks....

What we do need are laws that have teeth. Intentionally snag fish? Confiscate the equipment and pay a fine. Over your daily limit? Using a barbed hook? Forgot to record your spring/steelie? Confiscatet the equipment and pay a fine. Zero tolerance for lawbreakers are needed. For multiple offenders, ban on fishing (ie not allowed to purchase a license). If caught fishing without a license after that jail time. These are among my wish list.

And tackle shops and guides could offer classes directed at newbies. I would happily volunteer my time to help out at something like that. Show people a better way to catch fish and they will most likely switch, especially if they know that their current technique could end up costing them a fine and equipment confiscation. But until laws are enforced with and you have judges who are willing to sentence appropriately, this is all pie in the sky.
 

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And tackle shops and guides could offer classes directed at newbies. I would happily volunteer my time to help out at something like that. Show people a better way to catch fish and they will most likely switch, especially if they know that their current technique could end up costing them a fine and equipment confiscation.

Team up with your local C.O. and take out an elementary school class or two......they are the next generation of fishers and it would be great to have them show their own folks the "ethics" of angling. Your local C.O. would probably be into it and if you tell them that their Association president "Dave Webster" is doing it they my try and out-do him....LOL Dave is a great supporter of the local sportsman and helps in many ways.

Bud
 

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On this particular river the problem anglers are often sporting WN numbers, has been this way for years.
Not saying they are the only ones who brutalize our resource, but on this river they are both blatant and disgusting with their behaviour.

As for burnt trucks and slashed tires, this was a case of guys blatantly killing Chinook for no reason and how you take this as an insult to you is messed up.

Are you defending these kind of actions or is this just a tirade against me ?.

I would have no problem approaching you if you were committing these acts and I would hope you would do the same.

As for your "see me on the river" diatribe, what the hell does that have to do with guys brutalizing fish.
If ya really got beefs, just come by with Norm, bring Rick too if it makes ya feel any better, bring back the jigs and I'll give ya a refund cupcake. :-*
 

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Your employing as your reasoning burning trucks and slashing tires against Wa. fisherman...every beek on here reading this will in turn think any plates from the states is fair game and your arguement that it's WA fisherman leading the pack is old, washed out and total crap as well...I know a few of these guides and will pass your comments on to them.
This is nothing more then petty jealousy IMO
Your talking the fraser/harrison and I've seen way too many of your own totally abuse that fishery and in much larger numbers then any WN's.

Trying to say do I support these kind of actions only shows how weak your arguement is by attempting to deflect it back when I have never stood for any of this kind of crap and do take action against others who abuse the fish. If you'd read any of my posts you'd have known that but your obviously so into your own little game you never bothered.

You've started enough sheeit with your F.A.G. comments about fly fisherman etc. You the one who seriously seems to have issues with anyone trying to simply enjoy their own method of fishing...Kind of like having to drive a big truck to make up for lack of manhood in other area's???

As for the "see you on the river" comment...We'll see, You promote vandalizing vehicles and are a Moderator?? You can bite my cupcake!!! :-*
 

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I'm really confused grey ghost ......... if you are against that kind of fishing ........ why such a tirade??? Perhaps, Rod should have not used US fishermen using methods like some do in any river (the "Sockeye" technique) and should have made his statement more generic ...... but come on enough is enough. I've got family that live in WA and sure don't find his comments that insulting.

Please re-read some posts here as I fail also to see where Rod has mentioned that you "support these kinds of actions." I'm sure your comment about people driving big trucks, although amusing, isn't credible either. Is that your own sense of jealousy??

Just my own :2cents:


GOFISH 8)


ps: When did Rod become a Moderator???
 

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C'mon fellas, I know it's very frustrating seing unethical methods all over our rivers and we sometimes find comfort in these forums to vent out or unload on a few that doesn't share the same ethical methods as what majority of us anglers here consider acceptable. These unethical angling issue is ancient and yes it's getting worse and worse each year. Coming to forums like these to find comfort and a sense of belonging to a group acknowledge idea, of what's acceptable or not, and disecting any member or poster here EVERYTIME we find flaws in thier postings under threads relating to this "unethical" angling that was probably triggered by years and years of frustrations doesn't fix this issue. It's us that know the issue and problems on our rivers that should be working together to combat the problems. This pointing fingers to our neighbors down South is just un-professional. I know for a fact A LOT of Americans that practice very very ethical and admirable ethics compared to A LOT of our fellow Canadian anglers. So this pointing fingers to our neighbors down South needs to stop.
Secondly, these boards needs to stop seing a lot of "OH LOOK I SEE BAD FISHERMAN OVER THERE" Posts!!! and INSTEAD, more Fishing reports. All these posts directed at "wrong doers" are starting to look like epeen stroking posts. "Here look, I see bad guy and I don't do that guys because I am good" PFFT!... you kidding me, even my 10 year old laughs at some out of control threads.
Lastly, we all know what's threatening our resources, we know there are assigned enforcers to combat these--- CALL THEM IF YOU SEE ILLEGAL PRACTICES!!!! but PLEASE KEEP IT SAFE!!!
 
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GOFISH said:
I'm really confused grey ghost ......... if you are against that kind of fishing ........ why such a tirade??? Perhaps, Rod should have not used US fishermen using methods like some do in any river (the "Sockeye" technique) and should have made his statement more generic ...... but come on enough is enough. I've got family that live in WA and sure don't find his comments that insulting.

Please re-read some posts here as I fail also to see where Rod has mentioned that you "support these kinds of actions." I'm sure your comment about people driving big trucks, although amusing, isn't credible either. Is that your own sense of jealousy??

Just my own :2cents:


GOFISH 8)


ps: When did Rod become a Moderator???
He is a moderator for Screaming Reels !!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
flyguy said:
Boy I guess it's another one to the sin bin  ;D .
Lets try and keep this one out of the bin. My purpose for this thread is to ask the question; What can we do as Anglers to try and slow if not stop the probelms on our rivers? I have notice that there hasn't been to many people interested or mention a valley wide C&R program for all smaller flows that can't handle the pressure. There are no major fingers to point for this discussion, we all know what happens out there, especially during the fall salmon runs. Taking matters into your own hands can turn out quite dangerous at times, even the biggest and strongest are no mach for a knife or a gun. And you never know who you are really confronting out there. I would definitely say speak up when things are not right, however don't get involved in major confrontation as it can get out of hand really quick.

Take pictures, report poachers to the RAPP line, call the RCMP and report illegal fishing activity but keep it civilized. As more people get busted for illegal fishing practises the less that will continue. I also believe that a voice needs to chosen to bring forth issues to our government regarding what is really going on out there. Though to them it is a minor issue, if enough people shout  they will hear it. Words speak power in numbers! I know there are many different associates and groups out there that are trying to be heard, but what would you think would work better...a number of small groups speaking up about different issues or one large group speaking up about the more major and important issues one at a time? If things were to be tackled properly and organized into one large group that would be made of a conglomerate of smaller ones all speaking up about something then we will be heard.

Once we have been heard then maybe we can see the rules and regulations changed into what would preserve sport fishing and eliminate the whole snagging fishery.
 

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I had a thought Trav and it has kind of been buzzing around abit. Why not start a mentor program
in the hook a partner section and have some of the more experienced rods donate there time educating
willing anglers ? There seems to be a need for hands on field experience.

:beerchug: Marko
 

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Trav, I love that C & R idea. Never hear anyone promoting that one :beerchug: And lets face it...the kill fishery IS the problem. For many fishing means killing or catching. The Veddar being a great example of this....an incredible fishery with unbelievable potential that is just given to the meat types. All regulations on this flow cater to the meat types, there is no C&R area, no fly only areas, no civlized areas, just killing fields...sad.

Who knows what we can do Trav, but in my opinion any stream in BC with any population of wild trout, salmon, or steelhead should be catch and release. Even streams with hatchery fish. If there is the slightest chance of hooking a wild salmonid....C&R :thumbup:
 

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C&R would be a great idea on my local flow as most of the seasoned vets that fish it already do this. The problem I am having is the fact that the newbies have no idea what you are allowed to retain on this river. They seem to think that because it is hooked they can keep it.

On one of the other sites (FWR) Chris Gadsen and the organizations he belongs too have already been a strong voice to the government regarding some of the actions on the river. He along with others are also putting together a short video this week on short floating techniques and I believe it will be posted on that site.

So there are thing already in the works but the more pressure we as anglers put on the government and their angencies the better. Just maybe someone in their office will actually listen. So keep phoning in violations and write letters because unfortunatly change will not happen over night.

There is one thing you can not teach and that is common sense.
 
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