[2Metric]

This is not a complaint, wine, or rant. Just a warning for those of us anglers who have not been to either Scales Bar or the end of Saint Elmo Rd. banks for BBing before, but are thinking of doing so soon.

This is the first year I've fished Scales. Right now tempers are flaring between an average of 50 to 60 BBers. There are many arguments/threats/ between men of all ages BBing very close to each other. You have to wade in up to your chest to cast out far enough. Weekends are worst. Vehicle break-ins are common at all times of the day. You must park a 20 min hike away, and 10 minutes of that are on the CNR/CPR rail tracks with trains frequently passing by. There isn't much room on the side to wait the trains out. I would say this could be very dangerous for kids.

Aug 13 was the first time I ever tried fishing the banks at the end of <an upper river bar>. Average of 40 BBers on weekends. First theing we noticed was that the four of us were the only non-whites there. Never experienced that with 40BBers before. We were not welcome. As soon as we could see the BBers they turned around and gave us dirty scowles. One guy said right away that we couldn't fish next to him, and I said I wouldn't think of it. When I stated that we were going to hike upriver to a spot that I could see had nobody, he said, "no there's guys fishing there too". There wasn't a f****ng soul where I pointed to. We just sort of froze and ate our rage. I highly doubt this guy would be reading this site, or reading at all, but if you are...be careful next time you do that to four guys you don't know. Next time it may be four other guys who have also practice full-contact mixed martial arts for over ten years. Sure they may sustain many blows that don't phase them anymore, but eventually you will be choked out until you lose control of your bowels or suffer permanent brain damage. All legally in self-defence. True martial artists never provoke a fight, nor do they make the first strike.

We hiked high along the bushes downriver to a sandy beach that nobody was fishing. Accidentally, of course, I crossed lines with a fellow above me. He was friendly and nice enough to explain that the upper bar is for assaults and stabbings, while the lower is for friendly people who help eachother land fish and share knowledge of the river's bottom surface. He said it's an unspoken tradition. My friends and I crossed lines with eachother and a few other people in this area and never was it a problem other than untangling and exchanging a "woops I thought I had a fish on for a minute...thank you". BBers were hooking Sockeye every 5min when it was good and every 15 minutes when is slowed down.

If you're the type of person who is ready and willing to get into arguments, fist/knife fights then you'll thrive at these two spots. If you aren't, and enjoy mutual respect and courtesy between humans, then try less busy places. The uppper Fraser is good almost anywhere for Sockeye right now. Just fish a day or two after the commercial/native openings take place. We discovered that almost all native peoples are friendly to shore rod anglers, and they will even share their historical knowledge of where the fish are schooling and running on the river. Take an adventure and try a spot that looks good to you regardless of how many people aren't there. It makes it so much more rewarding when you hook, fight, and land that fish to the sounds of nothing more than the wind.

<Editted for language :x (Stone)>

 

[stone]

2metric:

First of all, please do not swear in this site as we strive to keep this forum to be a clean and friendly site for people of all ages to come and hang out in. Thanks.

Secondly, I have fished that site that you speak of for years, and I have never received that kind of treatment before. Obviously, I am definitely non-white, and neither is the Filipino friend that I often show up with. People are mostly helpful, and we know a lot of the regulars that show up there. Of course, that site has become very very busy the past couple of years or so and there are more strangers that show up to fish. These guys I cannot vouch for. In fact, just the other day, a young guy who spoke some sort of Slavic language showed up with his wife and young son at around 10 o'clock in the morning. He walked in right beside me without asking, fishing close enough to me for me to touch him. This ticked me off, but I didn't say anything to him and just moved downstream to where no one was fishing. His young son then proceded to cross my line with his chubbing rod to the delight of his mother. I could have thrown the whole family into the water...but elected to ignore it instead and thought about the two sockeyes that I was going to enjoy later.

Bottom line is when you go out bottom bouncing, you are going to meet some of society's most ignorant people. If you're going to prevent yourself from popping an aneurysm or having a mild heart attack, then you will have to just learn to ignore these people and make like a duck and have it just roll off your back. That's the unfortunate reality of this meat fishery every year. Good luck.

 

[bigjay]

Get off my Beach you @#@$#$, I'll smash you windows for free. Stupid LOCALISM. Dumb Longboarders, gromits, and other assorted @#@holes. In the day it was mine.
Impose real limits... ten a year.
I know my vapid remarks are not cared for or taken but I seen this not at streams, at breaks surfing.
And alway it push us, the lover of the sport out, cause it is not sporting to hit another for minimal crap. Save the fish lets say something about the Sockeye fishery. It is the next to go. We can't take the attitude they take we should take as much as we can... and many do. That will end it for all of us. And we all want fish for our kids to catch.
A fish lover, Jason

 

[Bent Rod]

I understand what you are trying to say Big Jay.
This exactly what you would expect from people who are only interested in the greed for meat, for them sport is not related to fishing. It will only end when the fish are gone or those of us who are actually fighting to stop this mistake, gain the upper hand. These nasty gong shows make for good video, to show those that make the decisions, KEEP IT UP BOYS, we need the ammo :lol: .

 

[2Metric]

I apologize...

I'm sorry I ignorantly forgot that youngsters are reading this site too, and that swearing is lame. I guess I was just sun-stricken and agitated from conflict earlier in the day. Stone, it's good to know that normally...maybe on a weekday, these spots are friendly. Gives me hope.

This may sound cheesy, but I was thinking of making a BCFR 2Metric ball cap, so all of you can feel confident coming up to me and chit-chatting. This would also disarm any worries that I'm upset if we cross/tangle lines, because I never mind at all. Gives us a chance to talk.

There's no need to respond to my original post, because it was just a warning to people who've never been there.

 

[tamure]

where do u surf big jay?

 

[Fish Finder]

If I spotted your BCFR logo, I'd gladly come over and have a chat Metric. :wink: ...It's that time of year...it comes with the sockeye territory....I'll be the first to admit I get hot under the collar over attitudes and etiquette from time to time but as Stone stated, it's always best just to let it roll, and make a point of not letting it ruin your day...


Finder :wink:

 

[Bent Rod]

:lol: Metric, in the event that you go "MMA" on some mofo, would you prefer ......
a. the rear naked choke
b. full mount with ground and pound
c. flying knee KO
d. soccer kicks and head stomps, Vanderlei style

For those lacking a sense of humour or MMA knowledge, sorry. :lol:

 

[Lund-lubber]

:lol: Metric, in the event that you go "MMA" on some mofo, would you prefer ......
a. the rear naked choke
b. full mount with ground and pound
c. flying knee KO
d. soccer kicks and head stomps, Vanderlei style

For those lacking a sense of humour or MMA knowledge, sorry. :lol:

Doooood....you can't beat a well executed "rear naked choke". :wink:

 

[GOFISH]

I GOT THREE WORDS FOR YA ............... OMG :roll: :roll: :roll:

GOFISH 8)

 

[nosey]

It's not just bottom bouncers on the Fraser who can be exceptionally impolite and ignorant, last year I had a spey fisherman yell at me for strarting to fish 200yds. downstream from him on the Thompson, he thought I should be rotational fishing and following him through the run, this was after I had watched him for ten minutes and he had not moved one step downstream. I don't know where people get this attitude that they are the only people on the river that belong there but it can sure ruin a good days fishing to be treated rudely by some idiot that figures they are the only ones that belong on the river. By the way I'm white and it doesn't stop people ignorant people from slurring me because I'm uhh not that young any more. I took my grandson out the other day to a not very popular spot so I could teach him how to cast a level wind' and it wasn't too long before two guys crowded in on us and then started bitching when he acccidently cast over them when there was half a mile of bar below us they could have fished on, we just left. I just can't figure it out if you're not happy when you go out fishing what the heck do you go out for.

 

[Big Green Machine]

Hi Nosey,

last year I had a spey fisherman yell at me for strarting to fish 200yds.

It happens quite often on the T - the sacred river that it is with its own slant on etiquette. 200 yards downstream in a prime pool on the Thompson is not really that far. I would have gone upstream of the angler anyways and started "rotational angling" as you would eventually meet up with him if he was planted which is not what you want to do when steelheading.

2 Metric - I sewed a BCFR crest on my hat and now I can't fish without it! I am confident you'll have more positive experiences fishing than negative. It's what keeps us motivated to try new things!

 

[2Metric]

Thanks everybody! Let's posse up!

Well about the MMA subject...there are a few other combination holds that allow part of your wrist bone to crush a trachea and block blood flow to the brain in your main artery just to the side of your neck , but no one should ever need to do that right? I just don't have the mindset to "go MMA on someone". Only in self defence should action ever be used. I never want to have to use any of the things I've learned and practiced over and over again. I'm just a little buddha sort of guy.

I really appreciate the uplifting attitudes you guys have. Just let it roll of like a bouncing betty!

Hope to meet some of you this season. I wear a black fitted baseball cap and have a grey camouflage backpack with a small hand net attached.

Oh and I used to fish the Thompson too as a kid. I love it. I grew up in the Shuswap. I learned to fly-fish and spin on the Adams, Thompson, Scotch Creek, White Lake(and secret beaver ponds/dams above it), blahblahblah....

Good luck everybody.

 

[coho_killer]

what about the reverse toe hold? it's a killer!!!! lol

 

[Bonanza]

Sockeye season really does bring out the worst in people, and it seams to get worse each year. I think there may be a few things that can be done to ease the tension on the river. #1; Make it illegal to bottom bounce for springs. #2; When sockeye are open, close spring retention. #3; Make it a requirement to tag sockeye, when you get your 2 stop fishing immediatly. No more I got my two now I am fishing for you. I think these things would make a huge difference in the quality of our fishery!

 

[nosey]

Good points Bonanza making it illigal to C&R sockeye would be a great thing too, the mortality rate is just too high for anyone to justify such a practice in my opinion, they are the most fragile of the Pacific salmon and have a long ways to go before they spawn they deffinately don't deserve to be unduly tortured as they go. I've heard people bragging of C&R ing up to 40 sockeye in a day so even at the most conservative estimates of 10 percent mortality that guy actually killed three limits that day. I do go sockeye fishing but when I catch my two I go home I don't stay around and tie up a spot on the river killing fish I won't get to use trying to get my spring also I do not BB unless there is a sockeye opening. If a sockeye is C&R once it has a 10 percent chance of dying how about that poor fish that's been caught and released 2 or three times before it gets to you, if you're going to release it you might as well just bonk it first or tear out a gill and throw it to the seagulls and save it from a slow and fruitless death on it's way upriver to the spawning grounds. I don't know if sockeye fishing actually brings out the worst in people or not, somehow I think a lot of these sockeye fishermen out there are just not that good people no matter what they are doing, to have that bad personality defects just when they are out flossing for socks seams like a real Jeckle and Hyde thing to me. By the way 2Metric there are a lot of good people out on the river too and I hope you have a way better experiance next time out.

 

[2Metric]

Good thoughts Bonanza.

I have to admit I like those three ideas as well. They would help thin out the crowds and relieve the intense pressure on schools. I like bar-fishing for Springs. Make a little breakfast, coffee, and read a good book. Then "dingalingalingaling!"

 

[nosey]

By the way I think it's alright to complain, rant and whine if these are your true feeling and opinions after all thats what internet forums are all about and your complaints seem totaly justified to me.

 

[fishon]

I agree! Whether sockeye are open or not, why do we HAVE to fish for them. DFO faces such pressure each year to open them and this year there "seems" to be a lot of fish. However, keeping two each time out does not help. So many people here call themselves conservation minded, yeah right! Catch and release puts so much stress on fish, how many guys do you see releasing them in knee/ankle deep water and gently removing the hook, taking the time to quickly dip their hand in the water? They all drag the fish into about 1-2" of water, let it splash around and nudge it back in with their boot. You could argue that people catch and release fish on the Vedder and such to, but these systems are enhanced and easier to get numbers returning (Not that it’s ever easy). Sockeye are falling victim to climate changes etc and smaller stocks to by-catch. If you care, why catch and release a ton of sockeye a day?

One more thing about the abuse buddy and his friends took on the beach; I want to apologize for the ignorant "trailer-trash" mentality of a lot of (meat) fisherman out there. The river is open to everyone that has appropriate licenses and fishing legally. What's wrong with having a guy that’s less experienced beside you? If your that good, you'll find a way to still catch the fish! Plus, have you always been an "expert" angler? Read some these logs on this site, it will show you the mind and thought of fisherman, it's disgusting! Not all fishermen act like that, some care about the environment, fish and other fisherman.

 

[stone]

FWIW...I think that Pinks, not Sockeyes are the most fragile of the Pacific Salmon species...yet they are the most plentiful. Go figure.