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white springs are in the harrison and the vedder. do they migrate farther up the fraser or are they only in the lower part of the fraser?
 

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The Whites in the Vedder are originally from the Harrison, I think. Have not heard of them being caught upstream in the upper reaches of the Thompson system and tribs but could be wrong. My guess is the bulk of this run is headed for the Harrison and tribs.
 

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Have caught several whites in the Fraser near Hope in the past, and have caught them as early as June up there. Definitely not bound for a Fraser Valley river.
 

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I wonder what system? Do the upper tribs carry both red and whites? Should have paid more attention in Biology class.


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Various rivers up the Fraser have white fleshed Summer Chinook.
The fall run White Chinook are Fraser Valley fish that I believe spawn in the Harrison mainly, but I am convinced some spawn in the Fraser.
On top of that they are stocked many places and seem to flourish anywhere they are put, one Fraser slough I know of teems with them.

Remember these are not SPRINGS, they are Fall Chinook.
 

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Yes, I thought here in BC, we commonly refer to all Chinook salmon, regardless of when they run, as Springs. If we were in Oregon or Washington, then the Chinook that runs in March, April and May are specifically referred to as 'springers'.
 

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People get hung up on names and correct nomenclature. Although 'chinook' is the recognized official common name, the term 'springs' is used just as commonly for chinook salmon in the ocean and in freshwater, at any time of the year. In fact I dare say it is used much more frequently than Chinook salmon. Point to a fish and ask any commercial fisherman what it is and I guarantee that 99.99999999% of the time they will call it a spring salmon. Ditto for fish processors. Ditto for natives and ditto for almost any fishing report you read.

The term 'spring salmon' was originally derived to identify very early running fish (entering freshwater). If you catch a maturing chinook in saltwater in Jan., is it a chinook or a spring salmon? Either or in my opinion. In systems like the Fraser and its tributaries, 'spring salmon' are for all intents and purposes extinct from a catchability point of view since you can't fish for them before July 1 at the earliest, at which time they magically become 'chinook salmon'.

If we carry the logic of common names further, when do we (or should we) call a Pink salmon a 'humpie'? Only during the spawning phase and for only those male fish exhibiting a pronounced hump? I think not. Same for dog salmon.

There are 'official' common names for fish (for legal purposes) and there are 'accepted' common names as well. Both are just as valid in my opinion and as long as you are referring to the same species, shows no ignorance. Just my 2 cents.
 

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People get hung up on names and correct nomenclature. Although 'chinook' is the recognized official common name, the term 'springs' is used just as commonly for chinook salmon in the ocean and in freshwater, at any time of the year. In fact I dare say it is used much more frequently than Chinook salmon. Point to a fish and ask any commercial fisherman what it is and I guarantee that 99.99999999% of the time they will call it a spring salmon. Ditto for fish processors. Ditto for natives and ditto for almost any fishing report you read.

The term 'spring salmon' was originally derived to identify very early running fish (entering freshwater). If you catch a maturing chinook in saltwater in Jan., is it a chinook or a spring salmon? Either or in my opinion. In systems like the Fraser and its tributaries, 'spring salmon' are for all intents and purposes extinct from a catchability point of view since you can't fish for them before July 1 at the earliest, at which time they magically become 'chinook salmon'.

If we carry the logic of common names further, when do we (or should we) call a Pink salmon a 'humpie'? Only during the spawning phase and for only those male fish exhibiting a pronounced hump? I think not. Same for dog salmon.

There are 'official' common names for fish (for legal purposes) and there are 'accepted' common names as well. Both are just as valid in my opinion and as long as you are referring to the same species, shows no ignorance. Just my 2 cents.
Considering I was just asked weekend before last, by a commercial boat if I had caught any kings.....I think your 99.9999999% might be off a touch. Or, maybe he was the .000000001%.

It's a BC-US thing. US calls winter feeders in the salt "blackmouth". Chinook in the salt that, depending on levels of maturity, can be blackmouth or springers during Dec thru Mar. Chinook that hit the rivers in March-June'ish...Springers...., Chinook that are caught from July until later in the season ie October are generally mature fall kings. Some of the chinook that are being caught at this time of the year, in the salt that have immature roe or sperm sacks are obviously feeder fish, aka blackmouth. Blackmouth are easily identifiable by their loose scales and longer skinnier look to them.

Make sense?
 

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Hi Thrasher

Yes your post does make sense but this is a Canadian website and us Canucks don't use the terms 'kings, springers or blackmouths' to identify chinook or springs.
 

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Actually Canadians do use the term, blackmouths, heard it many times before for winter feeder Chinook.
Any Chinook returning to spawn after July is indeed a Chinook and not a Spring, while some will call them "springs" it is a incorrect term, and one we that should be corrected.
It would be nice if we indeed had some Springs left in the Fraser but sadly they are going extinct. DFO with what little funding they have does not have the foresight to see what a huge economic boost major stockings of Spring Chinook could result in. Imagine the area around the Fraser mouth and Vancouver approaches would be like with a major run of Spring Chinook, or the excellent fishery that could be had in the Fraser before freshet.

Fish Farms are more important to DFO however and boy have those been a boost to the economy, of rich Norweigns.
 

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Actually Canadians do use the term, blackmouths, heard it many times before for winter feeder Chinook.
Any Chinook returning to spawn after July is indeed a Chinook and not a Spring, while some will call them "springs" it is a incorrect term, and one we that should be corrected.
It would be nice if we indeed had some Springs left in the Fraser but sadly they are going extinct. DFO with what little funding they have does not have the foresight to see what a huge economic boost major stockings of Spring Chinook could result in. Imagine the area around the Fraser mouth and Vancouver approaches would be like with a major run of Spring Chinook, or the excellent fishery that could be had in the Fraser before freshet.

Fish Farms are more important to DFO however and boy have those been a boost to the economy, of rich Norweigns.
:)

Thrasher
 

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I actually think you're splitting hairs on the terminology Bent Rod. Although I agree why some Chinook stocks were renamed 'Springs', it's not wrong for others to call all chinook springs. It is a very legitimate name thats used, in my opinion, much more universally than chinook..but be that as it may.

I agree that DFO has dropped the ball on conserving early run stocks but I'm not sure how they can. Certainly returning adults face no fishing pressure, other than some sporties in saltwater. There are no commercial fisheries in saltwater or angling in the Fraser during their migration period. You made a reference to fish farms. Is there some information out there that is suggesting early run Fraser chinook..err springs, are affected by them? I'd be interested to know because I wasn't aware of that.
 

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DFO is mandated to promote aquaculture, which costs $$, which IMO should be spent on things such as stocking Salmon to provide jobs and sport for Canadians. Not lining Norweigns pockets at the exspense of our wild Salmon.

Yes any fish having to migrate past net pens and their swarms of lice are subject to mortality, no different for Chimook smolts than any other salmonid.
 

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Hi Thrasher

Yes your post does make sense but this is a Canadian website and us Canucks don't use the terms 'kings, springers or blackmouths' to identify chinook or springs.
I dont get it? What does that have to do with the post?
 

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I guess I am going to have to watch my language when out on the highway off the WCVI. :p


I am still okay to call them "Silvers" and not "coho" right?? :p ::) 8) I usually just call em' "silvers" until they are spawning age...then they are ho's. :peace:
 
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