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i think the regs should change from 4 coho a day to 2, and only if they are above 30cm long! All other coho should be released, does any one support?!
 

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Tighter restrictions and a greater awareness is soarly needed to possibly prevent the decline of one
of our greatest natural resources.
 

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Thanks for bringing this topic up, Rib'. The concensus seems to be, is it the logging/habitat destruction, or is it the effects of climatic change and ocean survival? Granted there has been a lot a habitat destroyed, but the returns of the hatchery fish are not that great either which might lead one to believe there are other causes for the decline in stocks.
If any of you have talked to the Fisheries support people who take the census' on the local streams, there seems to be better return in some areas with different stocks than others.
I'm all for C & R on all species, period!....Ortho 8)
 

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I was actually quite shocked at the amount of poaching that I've witnesswd these past few months. Good topic Rib(as usual a good read from you) but it really sounds like where we are headed right now don't it!




Hotrod
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I would be good to go on C&R for all species too...although I realize that it wouldn't completely negate the impact sportfishing has on our salmon returns to rivers, I do think that it would reduce pressure on many of those rivers that went C&R only...
I look at the squamish watershed as a good example...I know the mamquam river really well, the cheakamus relatively well, and the squamish, elaho and ashlu creek to a lesser degree, these systems see very little pressure during salmon and steelhead seasons, in the c&r areas anyways...and I am sure the benefit has been increased returns the last few years...I have always done well when fishing this system, and enjoy the less crowded areas on a C&R riversystem...
rib
 

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I'll weigh in on the decline in not only coho, but all fish stocks in the US.
Habit loss is a factor, but in my opinion, it's N E T T I N G BOTH native and commmercial. The commercial fleet is monitored very closely, but the natives pretty much have a free rein. Last winter, natives caught WAY over their allowance are made the winter steelhead non existant. What the the state do?????? NADA.
Another factor is predation by seals, sealions and even mergansers. I had seen some picson another site, showing a sea lion at the top of a fish ladder on the Columbia, just waiting for the fish to come to him. He made it past the barricades. Crafty ba$tard!!!.
So, after the damage has been done, they plan on doing away with the problem critters. I can just hear the PETA protesters already. In the Ballard locks, the now infamous sea lion aptly named Hershel, pretty much wiped out the steelhead run. They spent 10's of thousands shooting him with rubber bullets, and even going so far as to load him in a truck and take him to the Oregon coast. You guessed it, he came right back. My opinion, instead of rubber bullets, why not use lead :shock: Problem solved!!!! Once the liberal media gives one a name, forget about it.

Just my $.02 worth
 

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IMHO, regs and catch rates for sport fishermen aren't really at the heart of the issue (although I support them). I think our (the US) primary problems have much more significant root causes. Habitat destruction (including dams) is definitely No. 1. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see other environmental issues, such as warming, as key players either. In Alaska they net huge amounts of coho but the runs remain strong, so I don't think it is, necessarily, the commercial fisheries. And, if commercial fishing isn’t the primary culprit, I don't think there's any chance sport fishermen have a significant impact.

Don't get me wrong, I haven't kept a native salmonid of any species in a decade and I am all for C&R management practices, I just think that in terms of entire populations declining it's like worrying about what color your drapes should be when the house is on fire.

My involvement in salmon and steelhead recovery efforts down here has taught me one thing that I think the originator of this post was getting at. It is almost infinitely easier to maintain and improve healthy runs than it is to restore them once they are gone or nearly gone.

The mere fact that I drive 10 hours from Idaho (a fly fisherman's paradise) to BC (another fly fisherman's paradise) for the salmon and steelhead fishing probably says more than I could ever add in words.
 

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So what is everyone's opinion on C & R on all streams and a complete bait ban as well for all rivers?..........Hardware or flies, that's it!............Just checking.Ortho 8)
 

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Well as a gut slinger I disagree with a province wide bait ban. Bait is not the problem!The Squamish is a good example for that. It's the industry as a whole,commercial,native, sporties,poaching, farm fish pens,and of course the ever changing enviroment.The impact we are as whole is making the difference for our children.I have no time to get into my opinion into great detail but I believe the ball falls into the upper managements hands and they will be mostly to blame for poor management and failure to work together(Canada and the U.S.) for the betterment of our resources as human beings who live on this great planet.It's the action we don't see that will be the end of it all. Is it over ,not by a long a shot but the signs are there.

"We need to listen to the wind and talk to the trees!.............................you know what I mean cola!"


Hotrod
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Mooky said:
one thing that I think the originator of this post was getting at. It is almost infinitely easier to maintain and improve healthy runs than it is to restore them once they are gone or nearly gone.
This is definitely a big part of the thread and a critical point...But I also feel there is yet the opportunity to limit how we as anglers directly contribute to declining fish stocks. If we can reduce or eliminate the impacts we have on the very rivers we fish on, and on the fish that will spawn there and produce generations to come, then maybe that will be enough to help overcome the negative influence of habitat degradation, el nino, and harvest quota's. Maybe limit retention of coho like we do steelhead, 1 per day and the angler must discontinue fishing for the day, or make it catch and release all together until population numbers rebound somewhat...

Either of these two options enacted immediately and on the short term in conjunction with several longterm postive impacts like habitat restoration, a re-assignment of minimum yearly flow levels on Dam controlled river systems, and complete closures of some of the more fragile tributaries that are primary spawning grounds for endangered stocks, would be a good start...some of this is being done already I'm sure....

I like the idea of reducing quota's and having to quit fishing for the day once you've kept your fish...mainly because it limits our contact with returning spawners...
By doing so, we have:

-Less fishermen wading the shallow ends of pools which in all likelihood could be redds that can be destroyed or uncovered by a misplaced foot...

-A decrease in constant catching of fish that have been in systems for a longer period of time, and being fatigued in one of their most demading stages in life by multiple battles with anglers over weeks and months...

Maybe being hooked, and fought, three or four times in a day kills some of these fish before they spawn successfully?

This would decrease if anglers had to leave after getting their fish, instead of plugging the water some more looking for that last fish they need to get their "LIMIT"...

-Oh, and on a positive note, more anglers will get their limit and can brag using the "bagged my limit" cliche... :D :lol: 8)

-It will reduce crowds if such restrictions are enforced

And so on a so forth...just thinking out loud really...any other ideas?
Rib
 

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I think there have been several good ideas floated here, but does anyone have any tactics to lobby for change with either level of government? In Alberta Trout Unlimited carries a strong voice to the provincial level but change has often been effected by the personal relationships fishers have with decision makers. Who speaks for steelhead and salmon in B.C.? Are there societies like TU or key influential individuals? If so, would we not be better adding the support of those in this Forum to whomever has the ear of government?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
That's a very good point redfin...anyone know of organizations that are working hard at voicing concerns of anglers? It would have to be an organization that is strongly proactive and responsible with their use of funds...a group deserving of our support.
There are too many to count...

On another note, I was thinking the other day, it might be cool to put together a little pamphlet with fishing tips and ettiquette that we as members of BCFR could hand out from time to time on the river...maybe some simple easy to read pictures, brief sentence or two, maybe with translations into several different languages...just an idea...
rib
 

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young gun said:
i think the regs should change from 4 coho a day to 2, and only if they are above 30cm long! All other coho should be released, does any one support?!
Buddy, are you serious? no killing jacks. They are the best of all. Have you ever caught a coho in june fresh from the ocean? Or had a bullet chrome jack from the vedder? I feel it should be 2 coho over 30cm and 2 under.
 

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Here is something for your consideration .........

Given the numbers ........... how many coho do you think actually are caught by sports fisherman in the local rivers compared to those netted (either by natives or commercially) in the Fraser. Then look at the number of fish netted and caught by commercial boats in the ocean. And I'm not only talking about Canadian regulated boats. These boats take thousands and thousands of fish during their harvest period.

Another case in point ....

Sturgeon are a protected species in the Fraser River ..... catch and release only. Year after year there is discussion and sports anglers are faced with the threat of banning even the catch and release fishing due to decreased numbers.

Here's my point ....... on a recent trip to the U.S. (Las Vegas, San Diego, L.A. , and San Francisco) I ate at many many restaurants. I was horrified by the number that offered Sturgeon either as a meal or appetizer. (FYI six restaurants I ate at in Las Vegas offered Sturgeon as part of their menu choice.)

Fact ...... Sturgeon are a migratory species. Given the population of the U.S. and the impact this menu offering has on this endangered species I submit that ......... more could be done by getting the U.S. Fish and Game Assoc. to recognize this endangered species and restrict and ban Sturgeon fishing for food purposes rather than condemn the relatively small catch and release fishery in the Fraser River.


GOFISH 8)
 

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Birdman said:
young gun said:
i think the regs should change from 4 coho a day to 2, and only if they are above 30cm long! All other coho should be released, does any one support?!
Buddy, are you serious? no killing jacks. They are the best of all. Have you ever caught a coho in june fresh from the ocean? Or had a bullet chrome jack from the vedder? I feel it should be 2 coho over 30cm and 2 under.
u sound a little greedy :roll: . could u not be happy with 1 of each :)
 

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Anyone interested in this topic should get hold of a copy of Salmon and Skteelhead Journal Fall 2006. There is an article on page 38 entitled "Can Gary loomis and Fish First Save West Coast Salmon?" Gary Loomis (former president of GLoomis) devoted the last 10 years of his life to restoring salmon habitqt and thus salmon returns in Oregon. He is outspoken on the causes of salmon decline: "I have yet to have one salmon spawn in my new habitat that was killed in a gill net the week before. I don't care how good we make the habitat, if we don't let the fish get back to us, we'll never recover the fish." His message seems to be that sportfishers must become more involved in enhancing the fisheries and more active in advocating for the fish. We need to develop strong lobbying techniques and be aware that if we wish to take from the resource, we have to be willing and able to put even more back in.
 

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I do not wish to offend anyone on this topic.We all know that the native and commercial fishery are doing damage to the fish plus habitat loss on most rivers due old logging pratices.I think it is time for provincal & federal government to combine the salt & freshwater licences into one.Then enforce,lets say a quota of 20 salmon,steelhead&cutthroat a year all combined.All this documented on the back off the licence for people who wish to kill fish to eat.That will get rid of the people bonking 30 sockeye and 10 springs in a month on the fraser in the summer :!:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
All of you make very good points. It is indeed a wide spread problem that the condemnation of one fishery will not solve.
I am surprised to hear of the sturgeon on the menu gofish...it is clear that regardless of the species, there are many reasons why we are sending many of our stocks into decline.
With regards to salmon, it is clear that ocean survival is the main influence on escapement...I like what prof said of Gary loomis's position on things...

sportfishers must become more involved in enhancing the fisheries and more active in advocating for the fish. We need to develop strong lobbying techniques and be aware that if we wish to take from the resource, we have to be willing and able to put even more back in.
I feel a part of this can be achieved by volunteering, educating, and inspecting our own behavior and kill/release ratio's...but I also feel we put a lot of pressure on the fish that have made it back to spawn. I am sure many coho, chinook, steelhead are caught many, many times in a season. Sometimes I'm sure some fish are caught and lost or released a few times a day...the impact of this contributes to an increased mortality on the river. I would advocate for a similar fishery for salmon as that for steelhead. Kill a fish, you're done for the day. I feel it would reduce some of the pressure we put on fish that have survived the critical ocean mortality rate, but there is no easy solution, and I am sure many would be against such an idea. This is in part how I would advocate for the fish.

Rib
 
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